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gblauer
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Sep 16, 2010, 3:07 PM
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All, we are having our 4th annual Birdsboro climb and clean next week and I would like to assign some of the cleaners to actually cleaning the chalk off some of our well used classics.
Last year we tried wire and nylon brushes, they were completely ineffective.
Can anyone give me some guidance on how to get the chalk off the rock? SHould we use water and a scrub brush? We do have a generator, would it be wise to power wash?
Thoughts?
(This post was edited by gblauer on Sep 16, 2010, 5:36 PM)
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j_ung
Sep 16, 2010, 3:20 PM
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gblauer wrote: All, we are having our climb and clean next week and I would like to assign some of the cleaners to actually cleaning the chalk off some of our well used classics. Last year we tried wire and nylon brushes, they were completely ineffective. Can anyone give me some guidance on how to get the chalk off the rock? SHould we use water and a scrub brush? We do have a generator, would it be wise to power wash? Thoughts?
Power wash? If you can get a water source out there and up there, hell yeah.
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johnwesely
Sep 16, 2010, 4:44 PM
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I would be wary of anything that could take the texture off the rock. That includes power washers and wire brushes.
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edge
Sep 16, 2010, 4:55 PM
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I agree with the wire brushes being too risky in terms of possibly removing texture. Where is this? What kind of rock?
I believe that during the Lincoln Woods clean up days the old standby (because it works) is water and either a nylon or natural stiff bristle brush. Tooth brushes and denture brushes work great, as do toilet brushes for the larger holds.
The funny looks that you receive if you buy all three brushes at the same time/store is an added bonus.
Rinse afterwords with a low pressure stream of clean water, maybe from a squirt bottle.
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BoltWar
Sep 16, 2010, 5:21 PM
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SUPER SOAKER oh and a brush, boars hair.
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BoltWar
Sep 16, 2010, 5:29 PM
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use one of the other not so precise tips. A nozzle that fans more than shots a jet stream of water.
Also you can turn the Pressure washer to a lower Idle. If in fact it is a gasoline powered washer, but if its drawn of of electric well I doubt anything will bet buggered up do to the fact. It wont have enough pressure to hurt much, But may get the cake off the rock no doubt!
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gblauer
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Sep 16, 2010, 5:38 PM
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This is at birdsboro quarry. We do have access to a creek for water, but, I am not sure how feasible it will be to powerwash.
We can use buckets of water and nylon brushes, although last year we didn't have much luck with that technique. The area is very overhung so it doesn't get hit by the rain. The chalk is really caked on from many many years of climbing.
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redlude97
Sep 16, 2010, 5:56 PM
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Magnesium carbonate(chalk) dissolves relatively easy in acid, so using a weak acid like vinegar should help without damaging the rock. Just make sure you rinse thoroughly with water afterwards
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markc
Sep 16, 2010, 6:09 PM
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Have you considered something like a hudson sprayer? I've used a 2-gallon pump sprayer both at work and at home, and that seems a lot easier than dealing with buckets of water. You could go with the suggested vinegar solution, scrub, then rinse thoroughly.
Like others, I'd worry about wire brushes, too strong of a power-washing, etc.
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lucaskrajnik
Sep 16, 2010, 6:16 PM
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Post pics, however you do it!
It'll be cool to see
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brokesomeribs
Sep 17, 2010, 6:36 AM
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Gail, when is the Climb and Clean day? I'd like to come out and help if I'm free.
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gblauer
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Sep 17, 2010, 1:26 PM
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Many folks come and camp starting on the Friday the 24th. We will clean and clmib on Saturday the 25th and Sunday the 26th. We have a fund raising raffle and community dinner on Saturday night, at the Rustic Pavillion in the park. I hope you can join us!
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rgold
Sep 17, 2010, 2:54 PM
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My observations from a few clean-ups is that you can't completely get rid of chalk that has built up from continual use. Water and brushes will not work for sure. I don't know about power washers. A vinegar solution also does not work.
You can certainly make the rock cleaner than it was, but visible chalk stains are going to remain.
Make sure to work from the top down, because some of the chalk that does go into solution gets deposited lower down.
It is a lot of work and about as thankless as tasks can get. Worth it if it buys some good will with whoever manages the site, but almost pointless from a cleaning perspective. A few days or maybe a few hours after you clean up, it goes back to looking as bad as before.
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gblauer
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Sep 17, 2010, 3:12 PM
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No one cares about the aesthetic...it's more about trying to remove the the built up, caked on chalk. Not worth it?
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rgold
Sep 17, 2010, 4:07 PM
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The aesthetic is what matters to managers. But you are speaking of quarry, so perhaps aesthetics are moot.
If the issue is just getting rid of heavy build-up then water and brushes are partially effective.
It would be good to hear from some chemists about what might work, and about whether something happens when chalk and body oils from the hands mix that makes the deposits significantly less water-soluble and even abrasion-resistant.
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USnavy
Sep 17, 2010, 4:33 PM
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There is an acid that my local gym uses to clean holds that completely dissolves chalk. I am not sure what acid it is, I will ask. However all I know is every time the holds come off the wall, they go back on looking brand new.
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edge
Sep 17, 2010, 4:39 PM
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USnavy wrote: There is an acid that my local gym uses to clean holds that completely dissolves chalk. I am not sure what acid it is, I will ask. However all I know is every time the holds come off the wall, they go back on looking brand new.
That would be muriatic acid, and masons use it to dissolve dried mortar off the face of bricks. Using it on real rock indiscriminately would not be a good idea.
Yet another instance where gym techniques do not translate to real climbing.
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gmggg
Sep 17, 2010, 4:46 PM
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edge wrote: USnavy wrote: There is an acid that my local gym uses to clean holds that completely dissolves chalk. I am not sure what acid it is, I will ask. However all I know is every time the holds come off the wall, they go back on looking brand new. That would be muriatic acid, and masons use it to dissolve dried mortar off the face of bricks. Using it on real rock indiscriminately would not be a good idea. Yet another instance where gym techniques do not translate to real climbing.
+1 Hydrochloric acid in certain concentrations is used to dissolve rock.
What I might suggest (And what I use for plastic holds) is a biodegradable degreaser, I like Orange-Solve myself. It's a citric based degreaser and I have a hard time imagining that it would damage any rock type, but maybe someone with some concrete knowledge could weigh in on that.
If you decide to go with any sort of chemical cleaner I would recommend trying a small sample in an inconspicuous area to check for effectiveness/damage/discoloration or any other potential issues before the event so that you don't waste a bunch of money and time supplying the stuff at the event.
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edge
Sep 17, 2010, 5:08 PM
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gmggg wrote: What I might suggest (And what I use for plastic holds) is a biodegradable degreaser, I like Orange-Solve myself. It's a citric based degreaser and I have a hard time imagining that it would damage any rock type, but maybe someone with some concrete knowledge could weigh in on that.
We have used citrus based paint strippers at Lincoln Woods to remove graffiti* with good results. However you need to flush it with plenty of water, and I can't comment as to how it would react with caked on chalk. It showed no noticeable effect on the rock or it's texture.
*They don't make enough to remove all the graffiti at Lincoln Woods...
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hafilax
Sep 17, 2010, 5:30 PM
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edge wrote: USnavy wrote: There is an acid that my local gym uses to clean holds that completely dissolves chalk. I am not sure what acid it is, I will ask. However all I know is every time the holds come off the wall, they go back on looking brand new. That would be muriatic acid, and masons use it to dissolve dried mortar off the face of bricks. Using it on real rock indiscriminately would not be a good idea. Yet another instance where gym techniques do not translate to real climbing.
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dynosore
Sep 17, 2010, 5:36 PM
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Diluted muriatic acid (say 3-5%) should work well, just wear the right protective clothing and rinse the rock when done to get rid of the residual. Realistically, you're not going to dissolve even a small fraction of a mm of rock with a solution like this. The acid will preferentially attack the calcium carbonate over almost any rock type.
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xtrmecat
Sep 17, 2010, 5:40 PM
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Do not use any form of any acid, unless you do not mind contaminating every soft good that will come into contact with the ground for many months after. It will kill soft goods on first contact. When they don't hold, what keeps yer ass off the deck?
Burly Bob
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hafilax
Sep 17, 2010, 5:40 PM
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I'm not positive but I believe that the issue with caked on chalk is the oils from the hands and not the chalk itself. Removing the oils will require a degreaser which is alkaline vs an acid to remove the chalk which is pretty easy to get off.
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dynosore
Sep 17, 2010, 5:45 PM
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A 3% HCl solution has about the same pH as a can of coke. Relax. If someone spilled a 2 liter of coke on the ground, and you unwittingly set your slings there next weekend, do you seriously think you're in any danger?? I said rinse the rock when done. The ground will neutralize the rest. This reminds me of the sharpie middle mark fears. I took a sharpie and zeroed a piece of paper on an analytical balance out of curiosity one time. I then proceeded to add at least 10 times the ink that any sane person would use to mark the middle of their rope. The weight was about 0.01g, even counting for evaporative loss before I could weigh it. LOL if 0.01g of acetone compromises your 3600g rope, you've got a lot bigger problems.......
Point is, don't create fear where it's not necessary.
(This post was edited by dynosore on Sep 17, 2010, 5:46 PM)
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