Right

I am not.

Here's what Craig Luebben said.

CLIMBING STYLE

The ultimate style in which to climb a route is ONSIGHT-climbing from bottom to top on the first try with no falls or hangs on the rope, and with no prior information about the route other than what you can see from the ground. If the route is at all within your grasps, fight hard to onsight it; it's an amazing feeling to fight your way up a climb, hanging on through the dout and pump, and finally clipping the top anchors. Aviod making a habit of giving up and hanging on the rope every time a move challenges you.

Climbing a route on the first try, but with some prior knowledge about the moves, is a FLASH. This is also a great style in which to climb a route. The only transgression from an onsight is that you received information about the moves or hidden holds, or specific strategies on climbing the route, before or during your climb.

REDPOINTING a route used to mean climbing it, after previously working out the moves, while placing all the protection or quickdraws along the way. It still means this in traditional climbing, where placing the gear can require finesse plus mental and physical energy. In sport climbing, though, you can have the quickdraws preplaced and still claim a redpoint.

If you climb partway up a route, fall, and then start over from the ground but with the gear still clipped to the high point, it's often called yo-yoing the route. If you hang on the rope to rest, or because you fell, and then start again from your highpoint, it's called hangdogging. This technique can also be called working the route, if your ultimate goal is to work out the moves and later return for a redpoint.

Regardless of the style in which you climb a route, be honest in reporting your accomplishments to others. If a climber says he "climbed" a route when, in fact, he hung all over the rope, he's making a dishonest claim. There's no shame in admitting that he did the route "with three hangs"; it's certainly better than misrepresenting his accomplishments.

so it would seem that a true onsight attempts to recreate the experience of an FA done in good style. no prior knowledge, ground up.

No.
I am not half right.
I am 100% rite.

No.
I am not half right.
I am 100% rite.

Your drunk again.

Just curious what the general opinion is. Is it considered a flash if you're reading about the route in the guidebook? Or do you still consider that an on-sight?

You are truly retarded if you still can't see what is wrong with your position based on this. Notice how there is no mention of 'problems" or bouldering at all.

so....

if you brush the holds on a boulder prob does that invalidate the flash/onsight, as you have indirectly touched the holds before starting?

Here it goes...

Bouldering is not real climbing.

Done. Problem solved.

Flash=boulder problem climbed on first try without
falls

Onsight= rope climb lead onfirst try without falls

Did you even glance at the Craig Luebben piece? It specifically mentions the climbing application of the word FLASH. I'm going to go out on a limb and trust Luebben's word on this one.

Also, see Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/..._of_climbing_terms#F

and MountainZone's glossary of terms:

http://climb.mountainzone.com/glossary_a_l.html#f

and REI:

http://www.rei.com/...ng+glossary.html#E-L

and so on...

Definitely the first one, but I also read the whole thread. It took awhile (the whole slow thing, you know) but I did it in the end.

Quick summary:

The original poster asked about which term was correct to use when you read about a route in a guidebook.

Various responses either tried to be helpful or to make fun of the OP and various replies.

Giggly came into the thread and quickly proved to be an idiot.

Curt pointed out giggly's idiocy. Gosharks seconded Curt's observation.

Giggly posted up an article attributed to Craig Luebben which directly contradicted his original statement.

And now we're busy arguing. You have taken up giggly's (incorrect) argument, while I have backed mine up with proof that lines up with what many on here have said.

Or am I missing something? I am retarded, you know.