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jt512
Dec 23, 2002, 7:57 PM
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Everybody's points decreased overnight. It looks like points from posting in forums got deleted from the totals, judging by who got hit the hardest. What's up?
-Jay
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tim
Dec 23, 2002, 8:11 PM
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Points for site visits were eliminated as a criteria for ranking, leaving only forums, posts, post-views, photos, and routes DB information as relates to rankings.
This was a request from Adam and vetted by Jared. I can roll back the changes from CVS if necessary, but rankings are computed nightly.
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climbsomething
Dec 23, 2002, 8:14 PM
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DUDE! no joke! yesterday I had 95,000 and now I have 46,000.
right when I was #1 in Arizona too! (:heart: Erica )
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climbsomething
Dec 23, 2002, 8:19 PM
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I'm not THAT much of a lurker... 50,000 points go poof? just from "site visits?" wah!!
*me pouts*
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jt512
Dec 23, 2002, 8:29 PM
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Tim, I can see how site visits don't contribute to the site (duh), but it doesn't make sense (like climbsomething said) that some users would lose so many points just because site visits were eliminated. I went from being about the 18th ranked user with 110,000 points, down to ? since I'm not even on the contributors page anymore. Since mostly I post to the forums, either points for forum posts were inadvertantly dropped from the post counts, or they're not being given enough weight (IMO).
-Jay
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climbsomething
Dec 23, 2002, 8:35 PM
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If it ain't broke, why fix it?
Me:
added 2 areas, 14 sections and 98 routes to the dbase (and actually put information in instead of just listing the name...);
57 photos;
4 web links;
nearly 1,000 posts (primarily in front-page forums)
But I guess I am still not of much value
Value.... sheesh.
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jt512
Dec 23, 2002, 8:48 PM
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A couple more comments:
I think you should restore everyone's points. If "management" thinks the point system should be changed, fine, but it shouldn't be done retroactively. People who have made considerable contributions to the site, and had been recognized for it, have suddenly had their recognition withdrawn, and that is wrong.
For some bizarre reason the algorithm used to assign points has never been disclosed. This is counterproductive. Points are assigned at least in part, I presume, to encourage people to contribute content that is desired by management. Wouldn't it thus make sense to let people know how much each type of contribution is worth?
-Jay
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lox
Dec 23, 2002, 8:49 PM
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OMG ?!?
You are like, so AWESOME !!! You like, add so much more value to thsi site than can even be expressed in points. Your personality alone is worth 75000... NO ! 150000 !@!!111
Note: headcrak coolness points are not redeemable for anything. Unless you are totally cute. And female.
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coldclimb
Dec 23, 2002, 9:06 PM
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hmm, I'm looking at the state rankings, and there are suddenly people higher than me who have less posts, no submitted photos, and only one route sent in their profile, yet somehow their rating is far higher than mine. If only the hit points were removed, why am I so low when I have more posts, more pics, more areas, more routes... and on and on...?
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passthepitonspete
Dec 23, 2002, 9:09 PM
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First of all,
RESTORE ALL POINTS.
It is patently unfair to change such a thing unannounced.
Some of us work very hard around here, and put in countless unpaid hours of effort to provide USEFUL STUFF.
If the points need reworking, then there should be a
CONSENSUS OF OPINION
as to how this should be done.
This is a community, not a dictatorship.
Here are Dr. Piton's recommendations:
CLEARLY DEFINE for all to see precisely how points are currently awarded - we can't figure out where we're goin' til we know where we're at. "Get it?"
Open a discussion forum where people can offer their input. Do not do this until step 1 above has first been completed, or you will generate more clusterf*ckage than you eliminate
I believe points should be awarded based on the value of the contribution of the user to the website
Once we have come to a consensus, we next clearly define how points will then be awarded
Keep such information published, current and available
THEN after all is said and done, it would be fair to change the points
Restore the points system immediately
In the meantime, we should deluge the bosses with requests to restore the points
The bosses, FYI, are Trevor and Jared.
Let them know you are as displeased as I am
Sheesh.
You would think the powers that be would be more attuned to the community!
Cheers,
Pete
[ This Message was edited by: passthepitonspete on 2002-12-23 13:14 ]
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climbsomething
Dec 23, 2002, 9:10 PM
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Headcrak-ness aside (and for what it's worth, I am ~* 22 y.o. female and TOTALLY cute!!*~ Like, check my profile and PM me later if u like )
( )
I would like to, well... say what Jay just said but went ahead of me. Aren't points here to encourage positive participation? I was under the impression that, although I am not, like, the most popular kid in school, I am a decent contributor/personality around here. I rather appreciate being set aside from the serial dribblers and lurkers.
Notification of policy changes like this would also be keen, and the capacity to reject them.
Now, I can just hear one of the charm school valedictorians that has been bestowed some kind of power/authority around here huffing in here with a trademark snide "this ain't no democracy, but you can leave" kinda comment.
*sigh* Of course it's not. But it is a business, isn't it? That's how it's been likened in other bitch-n-moan threads- a private business. But a business needs customers. Customer satisfaction is required to keep people coming back.
Customers are speaking... well, if what I have to say actually has any "value."
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valygrl
Dec 23, 2002, 9:50 PM
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Wow
Well, I have been trying to figure out what all the fuss is about, and I can't really tell, as there is no discernable way to see the points for anyone except the top 15 and then the top 25 on the contributors page. Someone tell me where to look?
Tim, if the metrics are redefined, I hope that the tons of useful beta on aid climbing that Pete posted will be worth more positive points than, say, contributions to "The person above you" and "Sex with whoM" (both of which appear on the Most Viewed Topic list right now, and have what to do with climbing?
Yeah, I'm a Dr. Piton supporter, and have been since I started USING his BETA to CLIMB. Dammit.
Anna
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valygrl
Dec 23, 2002, 9:56 PM
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Hey Tim, what was that stuff you just deleted about admin kill files.
Are you saying you will have the power to censor people?
Is that what you meant before you changed the post?
(jumping into the fray)
Anna
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climbsomething
Dec 23, 2002, 10:06 PM
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Quote:More succinctly, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
*nods at the mild irony*
I am not sure who you were adressing with your snapping comments Tim -- sounds like Pete, mainly -- but my use of the phrase "charm school valedictorians" was not random snottiness. I was expecting some kind of snarky comment in response to our complaints, namely from you.
I cannot be the only user who has seen you be unnecessarily rude. Being (habitually) talked down to by admins and/or mods is not something I appreciate.
Yes yes, you're human. Yes yes, you're unpaid. Yes yes, the rest of us are all a bunch of whiny ingrates.
But paid or not, some of you are in positions of customer service, and as such, should be a little more steeled for dissatisfaction among the users. It comes with the territory. Sorry to contribute stress and strife but I think it is perfectly allowable to point out when there is a glitch.
Now, if I am being a bitch, well, let me say this: your attitude eventually puts the rest of us on the defensive. Snottiness can be contagious. If you're dishing it out, expect to get it in return.
Sheesh.
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tim
Dec 23, 2002, 10:23 PM
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Here's the deal:
I put into production a change that was requested by Adam. (Trevor also signed off on the change) It seemed reasonable.
Public reaction was highly unfavorable. This was in contrast to the elimination of post counts in some forums, and the elimination of sycophantic Q-ratings. The change is reversed.
Users continue ranting. Pete launches fatwa. Hillary posts 5 times or so in a handful of minutes. Valygrl wonders whether the iron fist of dictatorship is about to descend.
...
Lookit here, it's a Gosh Darn website. These points are not redeemable for cash or prizes, and your old points will be back in the morning. I hate to say it, but so far, the most helpful replies have been from jt512 and headcrak. (!)
Valygrl:
As for killfiles... Killfiles are a per-user screening list, so that users can choose who they wish to ignore. Let's say I get sick of reading Hillary's posts one day. Since it is neither just nor practical to delete them, I add her name to a killfile. Presto, she has disappeared from my worldview. Mind you, everyone else still sees Hillary's posts, but I am blissfully unaware of what she's writing.
The implementation here is probably going to be granular enough that I could killfile Hillary's forum posts (eg. I would no longer see them, although everyone else would) but be alerted to her PM's; I could read her forum posts but block her PM's; or I could block everything from her, not wanting to hear anymore about the terribly snarky person that I am.
Bottom line: killfiles are about AVOIDING CENSORSHIP at all reasonable costs. They are a USENET phenomena; I'm a bit surprised you haven't heard of them before.
--tim
(wishing more of the evil hardasses from wreck.dot would descend on rc.com...)
edit: Deleted my previous post to bump this onto page 1 of the thread. Hopefully this post is clear enough that folks who have not been following the thread, will be able to make sense of it anyways.
edit: Removed mild naughty language and revealed the deep dark Secret of Points (that they are not terribly valuable outside the site)
[ This Message was edited by: tim on 2002-12-23 15:14 ]
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sauron
Dec 23, 2002, 10:26 PM
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Not writing as administrator:
Umm..
People.
The only thing that was changed, from my understanding, is the "You get one point for each time you visit rockclimbing.com" part.
So, you were getting BOGUS points for each time you browsed a page (while logged in) on rc.com...
If the LOSERS who lost the most points, HAD A LIFE - they wouldn't be losing so many points, REGARDLESS of how many points the REST of their CONTRIBUTIONS are worth.
Get a life, kids.
- d.
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tim
Dec 23, 2002, 10:28 PM
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Dom, stop making me look so sensitive!
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powers
Dec 23, 2002, 10:29 PM
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the people who got moved up in indiana section have not submitted photos or added to the db. so how do this thing work.
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passthepitonspete
Dec 23, 2002, 10:38 PM
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Glad to hear that the points are going to be restored.
The next thing we need is to tell us precisely how points are awarded under the current system, so we can decide what needs changing.
And Tim, there is no need to use bad language in a public post. Save the swear words for the PM's, eh?
I try to.
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jules
Dec 23, 2002, 10:46 PM
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Jesus... they're POINTS.
If it's that big of a deal, you guys can have mine, okay??
Gonna fight over them like children with candy?
If you're not ashamed for rasising hell about something so insignificant, then I want you to know that I am ashamed for you.
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tim
Dec 23, 2002, 11:16 PM
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Quoth the progenitor of the phrase "ETS"
Quote:
And Tim, there is no need to use bad language in a public post. Save the swear words for the PM's, eh?
Duly noted and edited away.
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krustyklimber
Dec 23, 2002, 11:18 PM
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Jules,
You are my hero, and once again you are the voice of clarity!
C'mon people they aren't points for a game, or contest, we ain't gonna win nothin' so let it go...
I do feel bad for my man Jake/bigwalling though he had me beat good and mass of his points are gone... I don't know how many of mine are gone cause I don't care how many I had.
Nothing here on this private enterprise needs majority vote... we have no say and that's that.
If you don't want to contribute your time for free... DON'T do it!
Jeff
P.S. you guys can have my points too, for all I care...
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tim
Dec 23, 2002, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Nothing here on this private enterprise needs majority vote... we have no say and that's that.
Not entirely true, but given limited time and a desire to effect positive change, it can be shown that groupthink is not the optimum means to accomplish meaningful goals.
In other words, suggestions are ALWAYS welcome, but sometimes there will be an override switch that we have to kick. That doesn't mean that peoples' input is not valued, just that we have a grand total of two active, professional developers on staff, and the non-lazy one is on vacation right now.
nb. Points are back to normal now.
[ This Message was edited by: tim on 2002-12-23 16:25 ]
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lox
Dec 24, 2002, 12:41 AM
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What I think is funny is the concept of writing "as an administrastor" or "as a user"...
You are one in the same and your actions as an admin will reflect your character as a person.
It's not like a mantle you can take on or off...
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coldclimb
Dec 24, 2002, 1:40 AM
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Thanks for reinstating those points guys, I like it just the way it is.
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