So I was climbing a week or so ago and off the belay at the start of the second pitch there was an awkward and unprotected chimney up to a dihedral with a nice finger crack. I was pretty sure that I wasn't going to mess up the chimney but halfway up it, I found a nice little pocket to stick an orange TCU in. It was like a horizontal crack, although really shallow. It didn't really have any appreciable flair, but the cam was at the back of the crack. The stem was sticking straight out. I pulled on the cam and it didn't budge.
I placed it, clipped it and fortunately didn't test it. I didn't trust it, but figured it was worth a shot. But I still find myself wondering, would it have held? I generally don't place gear in pods after the link cam debacle, but are there any opinions on whether or not it would have held?
So I was climbing a week or so ago and off the belay at the start of the second pitch there was an awkward and unprotected chimney up to a dihedral with a nice finger crack. I was pretty sure that I wasn't going to mess up the chimney but halfway up it, I found a nice little pocket to stick an orange TCU in. It was like a horizontal crack, although really shallow. It didn't really have any appreciable flair, but the cam was at the back of the crack. The stem was sticking straight out. I pulled on the cam and it didn't budge.
I placed it, clipped it and fortunately didn't test it. I didn't trust it, but figured it was worth a shot. But I still find myself wondering, would it have held? I generally don't place gear in pods after the link cam debacle, but are there any opinions on whether or not it would have held?
The link cam incidents are due to cam rotation placing a force at the link connection. TCUs don't have a similar restriction based on design. Pods are fine to place gear in, especially tri-cams and (non-link) cams.
That being said, how can anyone on the net assess a placement without even seeing a picture of it?
Other cams have also had their axles bend and pulled out in the same kind of situation as that linkcam. Where they are stuck against the back of a crack and not allowed to rotate. I imagine the link cams might break at a lower load in this situation, but it still undermines the cams strengths. This is for vertical cracks, not horizontals.
Depends on how deep the crack was. As long as the lobes are were inside it should be OK. also depends on rock quality.
Bottoming a cam in a horizontal is OK. In a vertical or diagonal crack a bottoming cam placement is weakened and if using a link cam it's absolutely useless. A #2 C4 might still hold a fall in a bottoming vertical placement but I doubt a #0 C3 would. It's all about torquing the axle and lobes.
If you've ever seen high speed footage of a cam pull, you'd see that there is a lot of flex in the axle and the lobes roll out before failure. So as a minimum the cams need to be totally inside the crack. Otherwise it's dubious.
If you've ever seen high speed footage of a cam pull, you'd see that there is a lot of flex in the axle and the lobes roll out before failure. So as a minimum the cams need to be totally inside the crack. Otherwise it's dubious.
I'd also like to see some footage of a cam pull. Just did some searching and couldn't find anything.
luckily my second took a picture, it's not a great picture of the placement, but the pod is kind of C shaped, the cam looks good, and is taking up almost all the space in the pod.
Assuming it held in a fall, and that it is pointing up, it would be severely bent afterwards. I think that would be an exemplary place for a tri-cam or even a corded hex potentially.
You take what you can get sometimes when it comes to pro. If that's all you had, then good that you got creative. Probably would have thrown a sling on it to prevent rotation out of the pod.
it's pointing up, yeah, it was definitely a case of putting the only thing I had in the only place I had. I could have extended it, but I only needed it to protect me until I could get up to some better protection, and an extra foot would likely have been the difference between being caught, and hitting the ledge at the belay. I did get a solid #4 camalot about 8 feet above this.
I might start carrying a couple of tri-cams though, I found that I almost never placed them in granite so I quit carrying them when climbing on granite, but maybe pink and red would be helpful.
luckily my second took a picture, it's not a great picture of the placement, but the pod is kind of C shaped, the cam looks good, and is taking up almost all the space in the pod.
It's impossible to judge this placement without seeing the crack and the lobes.
Its like chewing glass to say it, but this sounds like a good place for a tricam.
This must be preserved.
Well, worry not, its rare that I'll edit out a statement I regret. At worst, I occasionally add to a statement I've made to turn it into a valid argument.
If I'm gonna be dumb, I think its important that my stupidity linger on as a reminder that I'm no more perfect than anyone.
And beyond that, I'll say no more. This isn't a tricam debate thread.
i notice that my TCUs had a bad habbit of leveraging themselves out of shallow cracks if they are so shallow that it cant be pointed in the direction of the pull
C4 and zeros have more flexible stems, does this help? ... well i havent had to fall on one in said position thank god
course give pods some tricam luv and theyll luv u right back
Its like chewing glass to say it, but this sounds like a good place for a tricam.
This must be preserved.
Well, worry not, its rare that I'll edit out a statement I regret. At worst, I occasionally add to a statement I've made to turn it into a valid argument.
If I'm gonna be dumb, I think its important that my stupidity linger on as a reminder that I'm no more perfect than anyone.
And beyond that, I'll say no more. This isn't a tricam debate thread.
The cult of the pink tricam calls. You know you wanna!
i notice that my TCUs had a bad habbit of leveraging themselves out of shallow cracks if they are so shallow that it cant be pointed in the direction of the pull
C4 and zeros have more flexible stems, does this help? ... well i havent had to fall on one in said position thank god
course give pods some tricam luv and theyll luv u right back
And dare I say it....sounds like a place for an Alien.
Sorry, I was logged in under a really old account for some reason.
I love elk slabs. Next time we go out there I'm smuggling in some beer and other things. Then after we chill for a while I'll have a look a nice long gander at your "pod".
Sounds good to me, it's been too long since we got out. So I do have a new rope, I stole it from camp :) i haven't bought a rope in so long! maybe that orange rope is still good... My new rope is thick, 10.5 I think.
The second pitch of Great Expectations in the Wichitas? If that is where you were at then...yes, it would have held. There would be so much friction from your body sliding down the slab that the belayer would not have noticed anything happened! If we are discussing the same route, there is better protection to be had.
11 /
44%
. But a tri-cam would have been bomber, a pink one would have been bomber x2.
TCU.jpg
