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Gustav0
Jan 17, 2011, 5:11 AM
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Hi,
I'm new at bouldering and I'm enjoying every moment! so I decided to go buy some climbing shoes.
I'm a perfect 43 1/4 (EUR) in street shoes which is ... 10 (USA) or 9 (UK). Anyway, I got these Acopa Enzo which actually say they are 43 1/4. I've used them twice, but they really hurt my toes after a little while! I know climbing shoes are meant to be tight, but do they usually hurt this bad? Could it be possible all I need is to get used to tight shoes? Will they stretch a bit? if so, is there a way I can accelerate the process a little bit?
Thanks!
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rtwilli4
Jan 17, 2011, 5:15 AM
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I believe they are natural leather which means they will stretch a bit. Acopas stretched but they were semi comfy to start with. Maybe they just don't fit? It doesn't really makes sense to compare your street shoes to climbing shoe sizes. You should wear what is comfortable.
This is not what I would recommend for a first pair of shoes... but maybe you just need to get used to climbing shoes?
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enigma
Jan 17, 2011, 5:29 AM
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rtwilli4 wrote: I believe they are natural leather which means they will stretch a bit. Acopas stretched but they were semi comfy to start with. Maybe they just don't fit? It doesn't really makes sense to compare your street shoes to climbing shoe sizes. You should wear what is comfortable. This is not what I would recommend for a first pair of shoes... but maybe you just need to get used to climbing shoes?
I bought a pair of climbing shoes that were too tight when I first started to climb. I tried to have them stretched at cobblers but they were still uncomfortable. Mine were board lasted, I regret not returning them right away.
Go back and get shoes you can wear especially as a beginner climber.
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guangzhou
Jan 17, 2011, 5:53 AM
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You obviously took the advice of the salesman when buying shoes that were to small. Buying shoes a couple sizes to small is old and outdated advice.
Buy a pair of comfortable, but snug shoes, especially when you are first learning to climb.
Pain is Insane! - Do Not Fit your shoes too tight!
(This post was edited by guangzhou on Jan 17, 2011, 5:59 AM)
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uni_jim
Jan 17, 2011, 5:58 AM
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soak them in warm water and em wear them until they are dry(ish). Hang out on the couch or watch a movie or something so you don't end up walking around a lot.
I almost always soak new shoes. The next time I put them on, It's like they are a few weeks old, but with BRAND FREAKIN' NEW RUBBER! Woot!
Enjoy!
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enigma
Jan 17, 2011, 11:22 AM
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uni_jim wrote: soak them in warm water and em wear them until they are dry(ish). Hang out on the couch or watch a movie or something so you don't end up walking around a lot. I almost always soak new shoes. The next time I put them on, It's like they are a few weeks old, but with BRAND FREAKIN' NEW RUBBER! Woot! Enjoy!
If he does that they arent going to take them back.
Thats a good idea if he's stuck with them but now he has a receipt and recently bought them and they are new.
So get a pair of shoes that are good now for you . Maybe a different brand. I have sportiva mythos and they were comfortable from the beginning but snug. If you wait and wear them( breaking them in the store might not let you exchange them or get back your money.
Sometimes if you are doing certain climbing like smearing and cracks and you don't mind the pain its okay. However you are new and beginning. Additionally if you go outside you might have to downclimb or climb off a route. Then you really might suffer in more pain.
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shoo
Jan 17, 2011, 3:38 PM
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Gustav0 wrote: Hi, I'm new at bouldering and I'm enjoying every moment! so I decided to go buy some climbing shoes. I'm a perfect 43 1/4 (EUR) in street shoes which is ... 10 (USA) or 9 (UK). Anyway, I got these Acopa Enzo which actually say they are 43 1/4. I've used them twice, but they really hurt my toes after a little while! I know climbing shoes are meant to be tight, but do they usually hurt this bad? Could it be possible all I need is to get used to tight shoes? Will they stretch a bit? if so, is there a way I can accelerate the process a little bit? Thanks!
Step 1: Hang head in shame for committing classic gumby mistake #1 (and no, gumby is not a complimentary term for a very flexible climber).
Step 2: Go to a reputable, climbing-specific shop with a wide selection of shoes. Gyms are generally good, as are whatever the local climbing shop is near destination crags in your area. In general, avoid three letter abbreviated big general outdoors stores (cue complaining from the 2-3 climbers who work at one of these shops).
Step 3: Have someone who knows their shit help fit you with a pair of shoes. Bear in mind that size numbers mean exactly jack shit in climbing shoes. It's about your specific feet in each specific shoe. Try on as many as you can get your hands on. If anyone tells you that you need to size them painfully, you can safely ignore pretty much everything else they have to say.
Step 4: Buy from the shop in which you tried on shoes. It costs the shops money to staff their facilities with people who know their shit, and it costs even more to keep an inventory. Don't be an ass and go on the internet the next day and buy from whatever web store saves you $5. You are paying the extra to ensure that in the future, you and others have a local shop to go to.
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sp115
Jan 17, 2011, 5:53 PM
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shoo wrote: ...If anyone tells you that you need to size them painfully, you can safely ignore pretty much everything else they have to say.
You may get contrary opinions on this, but Shoo is 100% correct, especially at the stage in climbing you're at right now. They are not supposed to fit like bedroom slippers, but "pain" doesn't equal performance. For all-day comfort I size my shoes so that the toes are just touching the end of the shoe. Then when I stand up and flex onto the ball of my foot the shoe should feel tighter in the toe area but there should be no pain. Once you get close in size, spend some time wearing them in the store, if you start to feel significant discomfort after 20 minutes you'll never last a whole day in them.
Edit to add that you also need to pay attention to the shape of the toe box, because some shoes are intended to be sized with the toes flat and some are intended to be sized with the toes slightly curled. this is far easier to see than explain, so try on Mythos and Miuras as a good example of the difference.
shoo wrote: Buy from the shop in which you tried on shoes. It costs the shops money to staff their facilities with people who know their shit, and it costs even more to keep an inventory. Don't be an ass and go on the internet the next day and buy from whatever web store saves you $5. You are paying the extra to ensure that in the future, you and others have a local shop to go to.
Amen to that.
(This post was edited by sp115 on Jan 17, 2011, 5:59 PM)
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curt
Jan 18, 2011, 2:27 AM
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enigma wrote: uni_jim wrote: soak them in warm water and em wear them until they are dry(ish). Hang out on the couch or watch a movie or something so you don't end up walking around a lot. I almost always soak new shoes. The next time I put them on, It's like they are a few weeks old, but with BRAND FREAKIN' NEW RUBBER! Woot! Enjoy! If he does that they arent going to take them back.
If he does that he won't have to take them back.
Curt
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socalclimber
Jan 18, 2011, 3:32 AM
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curt wrote: enigma wrote: uni_jim wrote: soak them in warm water and em wear them until they are dry(ish). Hang out on the couch or watch a movie or something so you don't end up walking around a lot. I almost always soak new shoes. The next time I put them on, It's like they are a few weeks old, but with BRAND FREAKIN' NEW RUBBER! Woot! Enjoy! If he does that they arent going to take them back. If he does that he won't have to take them back. Curt
Ain't that the truth. Shoo is 100% on the spot.
On the other hand taking advice from Enigma regarding climbing is a bad idea. This is a person who came into Nomad Ventures a while back, brought in a rope with bad core damage, and asked for advice. At the time there were probably five locals standing around with a ton of time under their belts telling her the rope was in bad shape. Then she started to argue with us.
I left.
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Robert_Paulson
Jan 18, 2011, 3:56 AM
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Just take 'em off when you guys are sitting around yelling "C'MON...YOU GOT IT"
Then slap those puppies on your feet when it is your turn to work the prob.
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socalclimber
Jan 18, 2011, 5:35 PM
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Robert_Paulson wrote: Just take 'em off when you guys are sitting around yelling "C'MON...YOU GOT IT" Then slap those puppies on your feet when it is your turn to work the prob.
Bad advice. Get shoes that are comfortable. Climbing in shoes that are too tight and causing pain will get you nowhere fast.
Shoo hit it spot on, the person who sold them the shoes was an idiot who doesn't know what they are doing. Don't spend tons of money. Get something that is fairly cheap. You will trash them in beginning since your lack of footwork is your own worst enemy.
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Jan 18, 2011, 5:36 PM)
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Robert_Paulson
Jan 18, 2011, 7:49 PM
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socalclimber wrote: ...Bad advice...
Well maybe. I was just taking a cheap shot at bouldering, but if forced to be serious:
I'll play devil's advocate. Is it possible that wearing sloppy but comfortable shoes could be detrimental to learning good footwork? Ideally we would wear shoes that fit our foot perfectly, were super snug, and still comfortable. I haven't found those yet. But yeah, shoes that flat out hurt aren't going to be good for you.
My advice is to try the next size up in the same shoe or a different shoe entirely. If they are comfortable and still tight go with those instead. If you can't return the shoes you already bought I would wear them for a while. I predict two things will happen. 1. The shoes will stretch and conform to your foot making them more comfortable. 2. Your definition of uncomfortable shoes will change, especially if you stick with bouldering.
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enigma
Jan 18, 2011, 10:59 PM
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socalclimber wrote: curt wrote: enigma wrote: uni_jim wrote: soak them in warm water and em wear them until they are dry(ish). Hang out on the couch or watch a movie or something so you don't end up walking around a lot. I almost always soak new shoes. The next time I put them on, It's like they are a few weeks old, but with BRAND FREAKIN' NEW RUBBER! Woot! Enjoy! If he does that they arent going to take them back. If he does that he won't have to take them back. Curt Ain't that the truth. Shoo is 100% on the spot. On the other hand taking advice from Enigma regarding climbing is a bad idea. This is a person who came into Nomad Ventures a while back, brought in a rope with bad core damage, and asked for advice. At the time there were probably five locals standing around with a ton of time under their belts telling her the rope was in bad shape. Then she started to argue with us. I left.
Is this the best you can do to drum up beginner climbers that need a guide for 250 dollars a day? Dosen't your company advertise ? You probably don't get many referrals either. 
I did buy a new rope anyway. Thanks for your interest.
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erisspirit
Jan 18, 2011, 11:23 PM
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enigma wrote: socalclimber wrote: curt wrote: enigma wrote: uni_jim wrote: soak them in warm water and em wear them until they are dry(ish). Hang out on the couch or watch a movie or something so you don't end up walking around a lot. I almost always soak new shoes. The next time I put them on, It's like they are a few weeks old, but with BRAND FREAKIN' NEW RUBBER! Woot! Enjoy! If he does that they arent going to take them back. If he does that he won't have to take them back. Curt Ain't that the truth. Shoo is 100% on the spot. On the other hand taking advice from Enigma regarding climbing is a bad idea. This is a person who came into Nomad Ventures a while back, brought in a rope with bad core damage, and asked for advice. At the time there were probably five locals standing around with a ton of time under their belts telling her the rope was in bad shape. Then she started to argue with us. I left. Is this the best you can do to drum up beginner climbers that need a guide for 250 dollars a day? Dosen't your company advertise ? You probably don't get many referrals either. I did buy a new rope anyway. Thanks for your interest.
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cmagee1
Jan 19, 2011, 12:10 AM
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Disclaimer: I dont claim to "know my shit," this is just what worked for me.
My two cents(emphasis on MY):
I got pretty aggressively down turned shoes for my first pair, as I would be mostly bouldering and was already climbing some steeper overhangs. At first, I couldnt wear the shoes for more than 10 minutes without my feet cramping and suffering unreal toe pain. I would just take them off between problems and massage the cramps out. However, after a couple weeks of wearing them around the house, to bed (until I was about to fall asleep, then I'd take them off), and climbing in them, the pain went away. I could climb in them all day and be fine. In forethought, returning them and buying a size bigger would have been a terrible idea. I would now have positively floppy shoes. And thats never good. Period. So... Maybe that means just wear em a bit? Try slapping em on next time you watch a movie or something. It worked for me, might work for you. cheers. 
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Jooler
Jan 19, 2011, 12:15 AM
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What if you go a week or 2 without wearing them, then put them on again? Are they incredibly tight and hurt? If so, perhaps they just compressed your feet and wearing them constantly didn't give your feet time to reform?
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LostinMaine
Jan 19, 2011, 3:10 AM
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Gustav0 wrote: Hi, I'm new at bouldering and I'm enjoying every moment! so I decided to go buy some climbing shoes. I'm a perfect 43 1/4 (EUR) in street shoes which is ... 10 (USA) or 9 (UK). Anyway, I got these Acopa Enzo which actually say they are 43 1/4. I've used them twice, but they really hurt my toes after a little while! I know climbing shoes are meant to be tight, but do they usually hurt this bad? Could it be possible all I need is to get used to tight shoes? Will they stretch a bit? if so, is there a way I can accelerate the process a little bit? Thanks!
If it is specifically your toes that hurt, just be sure your toenails are clipped. Might sound obvious or trivial, but if you let those puppies grow, it can be very painful for climbing. Especially if you're already starting with tight shoes.
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socalclimber
Jan 20, 2011, 2:21 AM
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erisspirit wrote: enigma wrote: socalclimber wrote: curt wrote: enigma wrote: uni_jim wrote: soak them in warm water and em wear them until they are dry(ish). Hang out on the couch or watch a movie or something so you don't end up walking around a lot. I almost always soak new shoes. The next time I put them on, It's like they are a few weeks old, but with BRAND FREAKIN' NEW RUBBER! Woot! Enjoy! If he does that they arent going to take them back. If he does that he won't have to take them back. Curt Ain't that the truth. Shoo is 100% on the spot. On the other hand taking advice from Enigma regarding climbing is a bad idea. This is a person who came into Nomad Ventures a while back, brought in a rope with bad core damage, and asked for advice. At the time there were probably five locals standing around with a ton of time under their belts telling her the rope was in bad shape. Then she started to argue with us. I left. Is this the best you can do to drum up beginner climbers that need a guide for 250 dollars a day? Dosen't your company advertise ? You probably don't get many referrals either. I did buy a new rope anyway. Thanks for your interest.
How nice for you! Great, after arguing with us you finally relented and bought a new rope. There was probably 150 years of climbing experience in the shop that day nicely trying to inform that the rope was shot. What did you do?
Argue.
In reply to: Thanks for your interest.
That's the scariest part of your statement above. WE DID HAVE AN INTEREST YOU IDIOT! We all took the time to examine your rope, we all took the time to tell you what was wrong. NOBODY WAS MEAN TO YOU. NOBODY LOOKED DOWN ON YOU. ALL'S WE DID WAS TRY TO HELP YOU. Instead of being gracious and thankful for the advice, you chose to argue with us. THAT'S WHEN I LEFT!
After a several year hiatus from this site, you still have learned nothing. You still insist on dispensing information and advice you clearly have no business offering in the beginners forum.
As far as my guiding goes, I do just fine thank you. I get return customers and I get referrals. I get excellent tips and I get compliments with my patience with clients. I put a lot of time into my clients and work with them to ensure they are getting more than what they pay for.
Frankly, my largest concern with clients is that they walk away from the day with things to think about, skills to improve on, and a desire to learn more.
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Jan 20, 2011, 2:46 AM)
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enigma
Jan 20, 2011, 2:47 AM
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socalclimber wrote: erisspirit wrote: enigma wrote: socalclimber wrote: curt wrote: enigma wrote: uni_jim wrote: soak them in warm water and em wear them until they are dry(ish). Hang out on the couch or watch a movie or something so you don't end up walking around a lot. I almost always soak new shoes. The next time I put them on, It's like they are a few weeks old, but with BRAND FREAKIN' NEW RUBBER! Woot! Enjoy! If he does that they arent going to take them back. If he does that he won't have to take them back. Curt Ain't that the truth. Shoo is 100% on the spot. On the other hand taking advice from Enigma regarding climbing is a bad idea. This is a person who came into Nomad Ventures a while back, brought in a rope with bad core damage, and asked for advice. At the time there were probably five locals standing around with a ton of time under their belts telling her the rope was in bad shape. Then she started to argue with us. I left. Is this the best you can do to drum up beginner climbers that need a guide for 250 dollars a day? Dosen't your company advertise ? You probably don't get many referrals either. I did buy a new rope anyway. Thanks for your interest. How nice for you! Great, after arguing with us you finally relented and bought a new rope. There was probably 150 years of climbing experience in the shop that day nicely trying to inform that the rope was shot. What did you do? Argue. After a several year hiatus from this site, you still have learned nothing. You still insist on dispensing information and advice you clearly have no business offering in the beginners forum. As far as my guiding goes, I do just fine thank you. I get return customers and I get referrals. I get excellent tips and I get compliments with my patience with clients. I put a lot of time into my clients and work with them to ensure they are getting more than what they pay for.
You are so transparent, it obvious you are hoping for beginner climbers to give you $250 dollars a day for 3 days.
Not to mention I was in a climbing shop that sells ropes and shoes.
I also know Nomad helps desperate climbing guides to find business. 
(This post was edited by enigma on Jan 20, 2011, 9:11 AM)
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socalclimber
Jan 20, 2011, 2:55 AM
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enigma wrote: socalclimber wrote: erisspirit wrote: enigma wrote: socalclimber wrote: curt wrote: enigma wrote: uni_jim wrote: soak them in warm water and em wear them until they are dry(ish). Hang out on the couch or watch a movie or something so you don't end up walking around a lot. I almost always soak new shoes. The next time I put them on, It's like they are a few weeks old, but with BRAND FREAKIN' NEW RUBBER! Woot! Enjoy! If he does that they arent going to take them back. If he does that he won't have to take them back. Curt Ain't that the truth. Shoo is 100% on the spot. On the other hand taking advice from Enigma regarding climbing is a bad idea. This is a person who came into Nomad Ventures a while back, brought in a rope with bad core damage, and asked for advice. At the time there were probably five locals standing around with a ton of time under their belts telling her the rope was in bad shape. Then she started to argue with us. I left. Is this the best you can do to drum up beginner climbers that need a guide for 250 dollars a day? Dosen't your company advertise ? You probably don't get many referrals either. I did buy a new rope anyway. Thanks for your interest. How nice for you! Great, after arguing with us you finally relented and bought a new rope. There was probably 150 years of climbing experience in the shop that day nicely trying to inform that the rope was shot. What did you do? Argue. After a several year hiatus from this site, you still have learned nothing. You still insist on dispensing information and advice you clearly have no business offering in the beginners forum. As far as my guiding goes, I do just fine thank you. I get return customers and I get referrals. I get excellent tips and I get compliments with my patience with clients. I put a lot of time into my clients and work with them to ensure they are getting more than what they pay for. You are so transparent, it obvious you are looking for beginner climbers to give you $250 dollars a day a day . Not to mention I was in a climbing shop that sells ropes and shoes. I also know Nomad helps desperate climbing guides to find business.
Off your meds again eh? Apparently Lithium wasn't the wonder drug they billed it to be...
Good night!
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Jan 20, 2011, 3:04 AM)
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enigma
Jan 20, 2011, 8:51 AM
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socalclimber wrote: enigma wrote: socalclimber wrote: erisspirit wrote: enigma wrote: socalclimber wrote: curt wrote: enigma wrote: uni_jim wrote: soak them in warm water and em wear them until they are dry(ish). Hang out on the couch or watch a movie or something so you don't end up walking around a lot. I almost always soak new shoes. The next time I put them on, It's like they are a few weeks old, but with BRAND FREAKIN' NEW RUBBER! Woot! Enjoy! If he does that they arent going to take them back. If he does that he won't have to take them back. Curt Ain't that the truth. Shoo is 100% on the spot. On the other hand taking advice from Enigma regarding climbing is a bad idea. This is a person who came into Nomad Ventures a while back, brought in a rope with bad core damage, and asked for advice. At the time there were probably five locals standing around with a ton of time under their belts telling her the rope was in bad shape. Then she started to argue with us. I left. Is this the best you can do to drum up beginner climbers that need a guide for 250 dollars a day? Dosen't your company advertise ? You probably don't get many referrals either. I did buy a new rope anyway. Thanks for your interest. How nice for you! Great, after arguing with us you finally relented and bought a new rope. There was probably 150 years of climbing experience in the shop that day nicely trying to inform that the rope was shot. What did you do? Argue. After a several year hiatus from this site, you still have learned nothing. You still insist on dispensing information and advice you clearly have no business offering in the beginners forum. As far as my guiding goes, I do just fine thank you. I get return customers and I get referrals. I get excellent tips and I get compliments with my patience with clients. I put a lot of time into my clients and work with them to ensure they are getting more than what they pay for. You are so transparent, it obvious you are looking for beginner climbers to give you $250 dollars a day a day . Not to mention I was in a climbing shop that sells ropes and shoes. I also know Nomad helps desperate climbing guides to find business. Off your meds again eh? Apparently Lithium wasn't the wonder drug they billed it to be... Good night!
No Other Guides Come looking for business on Climbing Sites- especially with your method- Appealing to beginners for justification of complaining about a stupid rope from years ago.
Can't you just go home and satisfy your wife?
Or Go have a beer somewhere.
No beginner wants to pay $250 a day for a guide here. Especially for 3 days.
If you have so many referrals get on the phone and call them. If you can't get business with all you have available, a climbing store, living in the area etc. You must be really a loser.
I know Nomad gets business from guides, and guides gets business from climbing shops. I'm sure there is a financial payback .
Be honest
Try having some integrity.
So what I didn't buy a rope right away. Maybe I got one at a better store or online . Or perhaps at a better price. FYI- I got a better rope at half the price!!!
There are hundreds of ropes around. As well as guides. You started this stupid rope comment. You come across weak and insecure!!
If not for yourself at least to keep the image up of the company you work for intact.
I hope for your sake your boss dosen't read rockclimbing.com.
Or find a more suitable profession with your warm , sweet disposition.
I doubt any one would want to climb with a guide with such critical and nasty remarks. You true dark side is for all to see here. You really have blown this rope thing way out of proportion. It was a non-event. Just like you Nothing.
I can post on the beginner forum or anywhere else I feel so inclined.
(This post was edited by enigma on Jan 20, 2011, 10:07 AM)
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spikeddem
Jan 20, 2011, 4:26 PM
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Don't let your shoes get wet and don't feed them after midnight or of course they'll hurt you.
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altelis
Jan 20, 2011, 4:35 PM
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LostinMaine wrote: Gustav0 wrote: Hi, I'm new at bouldering and I'm enjoying every moment! so I decided to go buy some climbing shoes. I'm a perfect 43 1/4 (EUR) in street shoes which is ... 10 (USA) or 9 (UK). Anyway, I got these Acopa Enzo which actually say they are 43 1/4. I've used them twice, but they really hurt my toes after a little while! I know climbing shoes are meant to be tight, but do they usually hurt this bad? Could it be possible all I need is to get used to tight shoes? Will they stretch a bit? if so, is there a way I can accelerate the process a little bit? Thanks! If it is specifically your toes that hurt, just be sure your toenails are clipped. Might sound obvious or trivial, but if you let those puppies grow, it can be very painful for climbing. Especially if you're already starting with tight shoes.
This is a good point, bears repeating. Same with the advice about getting them wet.
To the other poster talking about feet cramping. My experience has been this is due to another issue. Toes hurting is primarily from shoes being too short. Either because of poor fit, not being broken in, or nails not trimmed. If your feet are cramping its probably because they haven't quite gotten strong enough to be in non-board lasted shoes. I think this is the biggest reason beginners shouldn't jump into more aggressive shoes.
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curt
Jan 22, 2011, 2:00 AM
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Posts: 18275
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enigma wrote: socalclimber wrote: enigma wrote: socalclimber wrote: erisspirit wrote: enigma wrote: socalclimber wrote: curt wrote: enigma wrote: uni_jim wrote: soak them in warm water and em wear them until they are dry(ish). Hang out on the couch or watch a movie or something so you don't end up walking around a lot. I almost always soak new shoes. The next time I put them on, It's like they are a few weeks old, but with BRAND FREAKIN' NEW RUBBER! Woot! Enjoy! If he does that they arent going to take them back. If he does that he won't have to take them back. Curt Ain't that the truth. Shoo is 100% on the spot. On the other hand taking advice from Enigma regarding climbing is a bad idea. This is a person who came into Nomad Ventures a while back, brought in a rope with bad core damage, and asked for advice. At the time there were probably five locals standing around with a ton of time under their belts telling her the rope was in bad shape. Then she started to argue with us. I left. Is this the best you can do to drum up beginner climbers that need a guide for 250 dollars a day? Dosen't your company advertise ? You probably don't get many referrals either. I did buy a new rope anyway. Thanks for your interest. How nice for you! Great, after arguing with us you finally relented and bought a new rope. There was probably 150 years of climbing experience in the shop that day nicely trying to inform that the rope was shot. What did you do? Argue. After a several year hiatus from this site, you still have learned nothing. You still insist on dispensing information and advice you clearly have no business offering in the beginners forum. As far as my guiding goes, I do just fine thank you. I get return customers and I get referrals. I get excellent tips and I get compliments with my patience with clients. I put a lot of time into my clients and work with them to ensure they are getting more than what they pay for. You are so transparent, it obvious you are looking for beginner climbers to give you $250 dollars a day a day . Not to mention I was in a climbing shop that sells ropes and shoes. I also know Nomad helps desperate climbing guides to find business. Off your meds again eh? Apparently Lithium wasn't the wonder drug they billed it to be... Good night! No Other Guides Come looking for business on Climbing Sites- especially with your method- Appealing to beginners for justification of complaining about a stupid rope from years ago. Can't you just go home and satisfy your wife? Or Go have a beer somewhere. No beginner wants to pay $250 a day for a guide here. Especially for 3 days. If you have so many referrals get on the phone and call them. If you can't get business with all you have available, a climbing store, living in the area etc. You must be really a loser. I know Nomad gets business from guides, and guides gets business from climbing shops. I'm sure there is a financial payback . Be honest Try having some integrity. So what I didn't buy a rope right away. Maybe I got one at a better store or online . Or perhaps at a better price. FYI- I got a better rope at half the price!!! There are hundreds of ropes around. As well as guides. You started this stupid rope comment. You come across weak and insecure!! If not for yourself at least to keep the image up of the company you work for intact. I hope for your sake your boss dosen't read rockclimbing.com. Or find a more suitable profession with your warm , sweet disposition. I doubt any one would want to climb with a guide with such critical and nasty remarks. You true dark side is for all to see here. You really have blown this rope thing way out of proportion. It was a non-event. Just like you Nothing. I can post on the beginner forum or anywhere else I feel so inclined.
Just incase she sobers up and tries to edit. 
Curt
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Just got new climbing shoes, but they're hurting me!
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