And this petition is going to make red bull apologize......?

I think this petition is going to get shrugged off. it splits the community by asking david lama not to rap-bolt the line he wants to free climb. I see that particular issue as insignificant compared to the damage they did and the hubris they showed to not clean up their mess and to not take responsibility.

rap-bolting has nothing to do with ethics. littering and lying does.

"You know that people will be very upset if you place your bolts on rappel, right?" Lama's response was "I can take it." what was that about good intentions? in my opinion he is a pussy who doesn't have the balls for alpine climbing. this attitude along with his affiliation with redbull prove to me that he is a wanna be moto X badass and has no place in traditional or alpine climbing.

This isn't just any old lead vs rap bolting debate. This is a question of paying respect to the local and alpine ethic and the history of the stone.

Would anyone in this thread condone rap bolting Canon Cliffs or at the Gunks? How about on Grit or at that sandstone crag in the Czech Republic where you can'n use chalk or cams? I certainly hope not. And, in this case, we're not talking about some little local rock face, we're talking about arguably the most impenetrable and beautiful granite spire on earth.

Sometimes it takes a little activism to protect what you and your community holds dear.

just go out and climb in good style......then you´ll be way better than him.

and you´ll be so caught up in yer climbing, you won´t even think about all this.

Well, what's the next stop?Maybe the next year they'll make the same mess on Trango tower!
What if they were bolting a line on El Cap( even if it was a route that couldn't take gear placements)?Maybe that's closer to you guys who say it's ok.You woldn't have a problem with that, would you?
Alpine peaks are a whole different playground and they should be treated accordingly. It's no different than taking your big smokey, smelly enduro bike in a reservation or national park.Just because it's a fun place to ride and you look sh!t cool on camera to renew your sponsorship contract with red piss doesn't make it ok.

So I assume you have an idea for something that won't get shrugged off.

You might want to re-check your el Cap and Trango Tower history.

Besides, arguing about climbing ethics and style makes me feel like a self-righteous prick. I control what I have to -- my own style and ethics, which matter far more to me than anybody else's.

I guess you missed my point.

I'm saying that there has to be a set of rules by which we play this game.

As it is, gear has come a long way and made great challenges(be them old or new) more accessible.But rap bolting an alpine route means removing the challenge itself and bringing the mountain down to your level.IMHO that's not acceptable and as part of the climbing community it bothers me.

Who knows what will happen in 50 years and what gear will look like.

Bolts are permanent and the damage once done will forever be done.

And after all, not all rock is meant to be climbed.

You should read Murder of the Impossible(if you haven't done so already).
Also, look at the Everest circus and what's happening there.I don't want rock climbing to become the same thing;

if I can help, even if it's only signing a petition(which probably won't solve anything) I think it's better than doing nothing at all.

Bolts belong on sport crags, not on mountains.

I agree that the freedom of individual climbing expression is of the highest value. I agree that Lama is free to do whatever he wants as an individual.

As a sponsored athlete, however, he is an agent of the free market, which is subject to the interests of others. Lama is funded by La Sportiva, I fund La Sportiva (with a good chunk of my change), and I'd rather my money didn't go to sport bolting Cerro Torre. As someone with a small stake in Lama's funding, to say nothing is to condone the activity, which is to compromise my own expression.

I dig the wu wei of principled neutrality, but it walks a fine line with apathy.

I am seriously disappointed by the lack of response by this online climbing community. Climbing cant survive in the real world without ethics and style, because otherwise the bureaucrats will shut down areas and impose strict restrictions on climbers and im sure we all know that the restrictions basically make it impossible to climb without filling out forms and paying fees and such. a lack of style and ethics will bring an end to the "dirt-bag."

there also seems to be a fair amount of "what ever you do it wont make a difference," which is complete bogus. spamming an inbox is better than doing nothing, even if the companies dont respond at least they know something is up.

i understand the notion that telling others how to climb is bad, and i agree. for the most part. but this is a professional climbing who is supposed to be representing the climbing community as a whole, and right now he is representing us with an "i dont give a fuck" attitude, which does not represent the community as a whole

this is bigger than just one route. this is about what is acceptable on the rock. Do we want all of rock climbing to turn into everest? guides wall hauling a group of old rich people up a thousand foot sport climb? No! sport climbing has its place, and that is on relatively small crags where physical difficulty is pushed to the max for a hundred feet or so. when one goes alpine climbing it is specifically to move away from the safety of following a line of bolts up a face. its about the adventure, the whole experience, not just the physical movement. and if the climbing community doesnt realize this i think our future will be short lived.

as soon as the bureaucrats think there is a problem they WILL step in as they have in the past at certain areas. a huge draw of climbing is the rejection of forms and fees. its about leaving the safety net of civilization and society behind and pushing yourself to the limit mentally and physically. i sure hope that the majority of climbers isnt being represented by the posts in this thread. i am deeply saddened by the disregard shown here, and i seriously hope you all come to your senses and do what is best for the climbing community as a whole, and i dont mean for this situation exclusively.

I am seriously disappointed by the lack of response by this online climbing community.

I was number 999!

Rap bolting should be outlawed in the back country!

If you feel otherwise, you should stay out of the back country.

WWJBD? (what would john bachar do?)

He certainly wouldn't call for laws to regulate climbing.