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j_ung
Jan 28, 2011, 8:41 PM
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jon06 wrote: You probably knew the guy, in which case I have no right arguing with you. If you didn't, than I would say you are wrong. Seems to me he would have a) punched lama in the face, chopped his route, and done the route ground up. or, more likely b) would have snatched the route out from under lama via a ground up ascent in the first place. I would love to see some hard man do either of the above! It pains me when climbers, who thrive in the outdoors, want to industrialize it. OUTLAW RAP BOLTING IN THE BACK COUNTRY!!!
Okay, wait. What do you mean by "outlawed?" Are you speaking metaphorically? Or are you actually saying legislatures should pass laws to govern climbing and police agencies should enforce them? Cause I have to tell you, if it's the latter, you might be a moron.
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j_ung
Jan 28, 2011, 8:47 PM
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jbro_135 wrote: j_ung wrote: jon06 wrote: I was number 999! Rap bolting should be outlawed in the back country! If you feel otherwise, you should stay out of the back country. WWJBD? (what would john bachar do?) He certainly wouldn't call for laws to regulate climbing. the petition doesn't either?
I haven't read it and none of the links appear to work right now, but the description in the OP certainly didn't say anything about legislation to stop lama from rap bolting.
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jon06
Jan 28, 2011, 9:17 PM
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about 75% metaphorically
and 25% literally
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fresh
Jan 28, 2011, 9:23 PM
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jon06 wrote: OUTLAW RAP BOLTING IN THE BACK COUNTRY!!!
I am all for, however, the authorities ensuring that they fucking clean up after themelves.
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erisspirit
Jan 28, 2011, 9:47 PM
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j_ung wrote: jon06 wrote: You probably knew the guy, in which case I have no right arguing with you. If you didn't, than I would say you are wrong. Seems to me he would have a) punched lama in the face, chopped his route, and done the route ground up. or, more likely b) would have snatched the route out from under lama via a ground up ascent in the first place. I would love to see some hard man do either of the above! It pains me when climbers, who thrive in the outdoors, want to industrialize it. OUTLAW RAP BOLTING IN THE BACK COUNTRY!!! Okay, wait. What do you mean by "outlawed?" Are you speaking metaphorically? Or are you actually saying legislatures should pass laws to govern climbing and police agencies should enforce them? Cause I have to tell you, if it's the latter, you might be a moron.
+1 The nanny state is already ruining the fun in everything else... Don't really want that can of worms opened :(
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j_ung
Jan 28, 2011, 10:16 PM
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Not that it isn't already happening to some extent. Unfortunately, governing bodies rarely make a distinction in how bolts are placed. They just ban fixed anchors entirely.
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Gmburns2000
Jan 30, 2011, 3:40 PM
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Sorry, haven't read the entire thread, so hopefully I'm not making too much of a fool of myself here.
I signed it. Having moved to Santiago and met climbers who frequent the area, I have learned that folks down here care A LOT about this issue. It is so much so that I'd be surprised if he isn't met with crobars down there. People really don't like what he has done or plans to do. It appears to be a complete disrespect for the local ethics and the community.
As for the argument of not telling people how to climb, we do that all the time with our own local ethics: no bolts in Scotland, bolts on previous gear routes at Rumney, no bolts in IC, no retro-bolting routes that others would find dangerous. However we've decided on whatever rules we've established is irrelevant; they're rules and we're supposed to abide by them.
For me, I'm supporting those who feel this goes against their local ethics. I hope more people do the same.
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j_ung
Jan 30, 2011, 4:00 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: As for the argument of not telling people how to climb, we do that all the time with our own local ethics: no bolts in Scotland, bolts on previous gear routes at Rumney, no bolts in IC, no retro-bolting routes that others would find dangerous. However we've decided on whatever rules we've established is irrelevant; they're rules and we're supposed to abide by them.
I don't follow a local ethic. I follow my own, which happens to be in line with what you could call a local ethic. When traveling, however, I make sure my actions are equal to or better than whatever that ethic might be.
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Gmburns2000
Jan 30, 2011, 4:17 PM
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j_ung wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: As for the argument of not telling people how to climb, we do that all the time with our own local ethics: no bolts in Scotland, bolts on previous gear routes at Rumney, no bolts in IC, no retro-bolting routes that others would find dangerous. However we've decided on whatever rules we've established is irrelevant; they're rules and we're supposed to abide by them. I don't follow a local ethic. I follow my own, which happens to be in line with what you could call a local ethic. When traveling, however, I make sure my actions are equal to or better than whatever that ethic might be.
I think that's really just a technicality, to be honest. OK, it's your choice to follow the local ethic, but you do try to find out what the ethic is and do try to follow it. In my mind, that's really no different than simply following it.
I get your point, but I think the reality of the situation is that even for folks who decide to follow the local ethic they are still respecting that ethic. Lama is choosing not to, OK, so you're OK with him making that decision (and maybe not the decision itself, if I am allowed to guess). Personally, I agree with that because individual liberties, in my opinion, should reign supreme, but that doesn't mean climbers as a collective group should stand by without opinions.
I dunno, I guess like anything, it depends. Activism, in my mind, is a matter of convenience; we're only willing to go as far as we're willing to go. I belive very firmly in individual liberties, but sometimes those liberties infringe on the community. I have personally decided to defer my be belief in individual libertities to the community in this instance, mainly because the community is very strong and cares a lot.
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potreroed
Jan 31, 2011, 12:24 PM
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gmggg wrote: caughtinside wrote: I say just say no to pro climbing. Keep climbing poor, keep it weird, keep it hard and make sure it stays a participant sport rather than a spectator sport with name brand athletes. +1 Well said.
It's way too late for that. There have been professional climbers ever since mountain climbing began.
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zealotnoob
Jan 31, 2011, 1:55 PM
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Yay!
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boymeetsrock
Jan 31, 2011, 2:05 PM
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Good on David for listening to the community. And good on the community for speaking up and policing ourselves.
Now I going to go grab a redbull and knock off this sick redpoint on my new Mammut rope.
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TarHeelEMT
Jan 31, 2011, 3:47 PM
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Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering.
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spikeddem
Jan 31, 2011, 4:04 PM
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TarHeelEMT wrote: Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering.
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dynosore
Jan 31, 2011, 4:48 PM
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spikeddem wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering. There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision.
There's nothing to suggest it didn't either. Find something to do besides post on these threads you supposedly don't care about.
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spikeddem
Jan 31, 2011, 4:49 PM
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dynosore wrote: spikeddem wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering. There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision. There's nothing to suggest it didn't either.
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rainman0915
Jan 31, 2011, 6:23 PM
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spikeddem wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering. There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision.
Your right, the real heroes are the ones like you who sat on their asses and did nothing. Congrats!
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spikeddem
Jan 31, 2011, 7:14 PM
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rainman0915 wrote: spikeddem wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering. There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision. Your right, the real heroes are the ones like you who sat on their asses and did nothing. Congrats!
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airscape
Feb 1, 2011, 7:48 AM
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rainman0915 wrote: spikeddem wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering. There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision. Your right, the real heroes are the ones like you who sat on their asses and did nothing. Congrats!
You seem to be rather passionate about shit.
Does it really matter?
Are you going to climb it or have you ever climbed it?
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airscape
Feb 1, 2011, 7:55 AM
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Who of you guys have ever been there?
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rainman0915
Feb 2, 2011, 10:41 PM
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airscape wrote: rainman0915 wrote: spikeddem wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering. There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision. Your right, the real heroes are the ones like you who sat on their asses and did nothing. Congrats! You seem to be rather passionate about shit. Does it really matter? Are you going to climb it or have you ever climbed it?
have i ever? no. will i ever? im gona try. does is it matter? yes it does.
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airscape
Feb 3, 2011, 6:30 AM
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rainman0915 wrote: airscape wrote: rainman0915 wrote: spikeddem wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: Wow. All that hot air actually made a difference? Good on David for reconsidering. There is nothing to suggest that this petition had anything to do with David's decision. Your right, the real heroes are the ones like you who sat on their asses and did nothing. Congrats! You seem to be rather passionate about shit. Does it really matter? Are you going to climb it or have you ever climbed it? have i ever? no. will i ever? im gona try. does is it matter? yes it does.
So no one has physically seen the actual disfigurement of the mountain?
That is very interesting.
So out of the 100000 or so users on this site, maybe about 10 people have actually ever been there, but eveyone should care about a few bolts on this huge ass mountain where almost no one ever goes.
I think the only people that should be concerned about this are people that HAVE climbed there.
THey could all go sit around a table with some coffe and discuss it between the 5 of them.
The problem with this type of hype is that in certain places this shit brings unwanted attention to climbing areas.
Politicians for instance hear "BOLTING MOUNTAINS" without knowing what that means and they make laws. I'm sure this has closed a lot of areas because some asshole wanted people to sign petitions.
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