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jt512
Feb 18, 2011, 7:21 PM
Post #51 of 56
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
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sethg wrote: I agree with all of that (except maybe the part about not carrying the rappel device...).
Why? Seriously, it's sport climbing. You don't need to carry anything with you but draws. That's right, you can actually take all that trad crap—your rappel device, your prusics, your daisies, and whatnot—right off your harness.
In reply to: I think what held me back from asking "are you going to rappel?" is the same thing that led me to take her off belay against my own instincts: I didn't want to patronize her or act like I knew better than her. She sounded like she understood and knew what she wanted. Of course I now believe this was sheer stupidity and I'll never make that mistake again. It is better to risk angering your partner than to endanger him or her.
I can't imagine anyone being angered by their partner verifying that they're going to rappel. Around here, it's standard to ask.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Feb 18, 2011, 7:21 PM)
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karcand
Feb 18, 2011, 7:42 PM
Post #52 of 56
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Registered: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 30
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It's 99% the climber's fault. Before climbing I will talk with my belay and find out if I am leaving a TR for them, cleaning the route or just coming down and leaving the draws up. This way we both know the plan. And if the plan changes and I am now going to clean the route I will anchor in. And before I remove my personal anchors I will always weight my repel device or if I am getting lowered I will weight the rope. This way if my gear fails or if i am not on belay then my personal anchors will save my life.
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Rmsyll2
Feb 21, 2011, 1:58 PM
Post #53 of 56
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Registered: Oct 6, 2010
Posts: 266
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Both climbers were back this weekend, with faller's girlfriend who also climbs. Both men were able to pull the difficult overhang start that had stumped them before, and the faller completed the 5.9 route in good fashion. He wore a new climbing HELMET (head wound staples have dropped out already), and they have new webbing with carabiners for TR anchors. Both now know both common methods for rigging rim anchors, including equalizing.
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yodadave
Feb 21, 2011, 2:32 PM
Post #54 of 56
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Registered: Feb 11, 2008
Posts: 510
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the beautiful circle of the learning experience is complete 
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notapplicable
Feb 22, 2011, 4:05 AM
Post #55 of 56
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Registered: Aug 31, 2006
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Rmsyll2 wrote: Both climbers were back this weekend, with faller's girlfriend who also climbs. Both men were able to pull the difficult overhang start that had stumped them before, and the faller completed the 5.9 route in good fashion. He wore a new climbing HELMET (head wound staples have dropped out already), and they have new webbing with carabiners for TR anchors. Both now know both common methods for rigging rim anchors, including equalizing. .
Cool. Glad they both took away some lessons and didn't let the incident run them off.
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JasonsDrivingForce
Mar 1, 2011, 8:06 PM
Post #56 of 56
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Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 687
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csproul wrote: So let's say you are the climber in this situation. Accordingly, you take responsibility for the fall because you chose to climb with a bad belayer. Ok, I can get on board with this. But answer this (truthfully): you just hit the ground and you get up...are you pissed off at yourself, or are you mad at your belayer? I call bullshit at anyone who says that their immediate reaction would be to blame themselves and not their belayer.
The real question is not who should take the blame. The question should be who goes through that situation and thinks "let's try that again and see if it turns out any better".
(This post was edited by JasonsDrivingForce on Mar 1, 2011, 8:15 PM)
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