I'll go beyond implying and state with almost certainty that there are far more climbers that cannot climb 5.12 than those who can, and yet once again on this website, the opposite appears to be true. You may be right about the ganging of easier routes, but that would contribute to the whole numbers thing, huh? I've climbed at many of the US destination crags and at most all of them, the majority of climbers are climbing below 5.12, including some with extensive sport climbing; Rumney, RRG, NRG, Red Rocks, Obed, ORG, Boulder Canyon etc...It is certainly true for the destinations I have been to with more trad climbing; Yosemite, JT, Gunks, IC. The only places I have seen with more 5.12+ climbers than below are places like Rifle, that are steep sport-centric places with very few easier climbs, and these in the minority.

I'll go beyond implying and state with almost certainty that there are far more climbers that cannot climb 5.12 than those who can, and yet once again on this website, the opposite appears to be true. You may be right about the ganging of easier routes, but that would contribute to the whole numbers thing, huh? I've climbed at many of the US destination crags and at most all of them, the majority of climbers are climbing below 5.12, including some with extensive sport climbing; Rumney, RRG, NRG, Red Rocks, Obed, ORG, Boulder Canyon etc...It is certainly true for the destinations I have been to with more trad climbing; Yosemite, JT, Gunks, IC. The only places I have seen with more 5.12+ climbers than below are places like Rifle, that are steep sport-centric places with very few easier climbs, and these in the minority.

Might I make a suggestion here and say that the ability to lead a "5.12" in a gym has little to nothing to do with being able to lead one outside, either on bolts or on gear. Take the indoors portion of this poll away, it means nothing.

Might I make a suggestion here and say that the ability to lead a "5.12" in a gym has little to nothing to do with being able to lead one outside, either on bolts or on gear. Take the indoors portion of this poll away, it means nothing.

Well no, I agree that the results of this "survey" mean nothing, but I figured that pretty much everyone was on agreement on that. I was more focused on your implication that there aren't lines on .12s or that there aren't (sport) crags out there with crowds of people who climb .12s. There are plenty of 12 years olds and 1-year gym n00bs climbing .12 sport these days. In fact I think on average you'll find more crowds at a 5.12 sport crag than a solid 5.10 traditional crag.

So for my stats class I taking a survey to determine the percentage of climbers, who have been climbing for more than 2 years, that have lead (trad or sport) a 5.12 (indoors or outdoors). If you dont mind answering these 4 questions I would greatly appricate it. It should only take a minute. I need 100 replies to do my project.

Thanks.

Question One. Do you lead climb? (trad or sport)

Question Two. Have you been lead climbing for more than two years?

Question Three. Have you ever lead a 5.12? (indoor or gym)

Question Four. What is the hardest route you have ever lead?

Thanks again for your help, I think it will be interesting to see how many people have been lead climbing for more than two years that have ever lead a 5.12.

Agreed...... I may have to come up with a better survey... This survey is was simply serving the purpose of establishing a null hypothesis.

Agreed...... I may have to come up with a better survey... This survey is was simply serving the purpose of establishing a null hypothesis. For the real survey I will have to obviously figure out a different technique as I totally agree, most people who have not climbed a 5.12 would be hesitant to say so for reasons of pride. Anyways, thanks for the interesting conversations and particapting in this survey.

Because 5.12 climbers don't drag 3 of their friends that have never climbed before up a route and clog up the route for an hour and a half?

Or perhaps because the areas that you're going to are predominately underhung and therefore centered around 5.10 climbing?

This of course doesn't address your implication that someone who has climbed a 5.12 is a "hardman".

Jesus, it's not rocket science. An unbiased survey looks like this:

1 - For how many years have you been climbing?
2 - Do you lead climb?
3 - What is your hardest send?

Then add some language about the constraints of the survey (inside and/or outside, trad and/or sport). Only this time take the 30 seconds to proof-read your post so it doesn't say indoor or gym.

GO

Seriously, who are you people who feel like you are in a position to judge weather or not this is a good survey? Are you my instructor? Or perhaps you are in a position to give me UNWANTED advise? The fact is neither is true. PLEASE keep your opinions to yourself. I DONT CARE IF YOU LIKE THE SURVEY OR IF IT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE BETTER. If you would like to answer the survey then I appricate it but if you only came on here to critisize my survey to make yourself feel important then move on. I am a student, a veteran, and a fellow climber and certainly deserve more respect than I have been shown on here.

Seriously, who are you people who feel like you are in a position to judge weather or not this is a good survey? Are you my instructor? Or perhaps you are in a position to give me UNWANTED advise? The fact is neither is true. PLEASE keep your opinions to yourself. I DONT CARE IF YOU LIKE THE SURVEY OR IF IT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE BETTER. If you would like to answer the survey then I appricate it but if you only came on here to critisize my survey to make yourself feel important then move on. I am a student, a veteran, and a fellow climber and certainly deserve more respect than I have been shown on here.

yes
yes
yes
12a (13 indoors but noone actually counts that)

also please don't equate your deserving respect with what jobs you have had. Try equating respect with being a human being. We all deserve respect.

the beautiful art of sarcasm.

camhead that is hilarious, thanks for brightening my day

I'm actually serious here. 13s, hell, 12s in any gym that I've been to , are hard.

I agree actually. I think that a 12 in a gym is really hard. I don't want you all to get the wrong idea here, I prefer to climb outdoors. I climbed outdoors for 3 years before I ever tried the gym. In my limited experience the time I spent in the gym in the off season has made me a much stronger climber outdoors. It also provided a platform for me to practice sport lead climbing to where I could get comfortable enough with it to try it outdoors. That has been my experience anyways.

The purpose of this survey as I have mentioned is for a stats class but the reason I choose this topic is because I wanted to see where my progress was comparatively with other climbers who have been climbing about as long as I have. Last summer I lead a 5.11 sport outdoors and have lead one 5.12 in the gym. According to this survey most people are climbing 5.12's. That is surprising to me.