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trekker17
Dec 31, 2002, 4:35 AM
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Reading through the posts, it seems that quite a few individuals on this site are vegetarian. I was interested in giving this a try as well, but was wondering what you vegans eat for your main protein source? I dont want to have to end up buying any supplements or protein powders and I still want to be able to take in enough protein as a vegetarian to continue to build muscle. thanks
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crack_head
Dec 31, 2002, 5:13 AM
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yeah i have seriously considered it. i will someday
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climbinganne
Dec 31, 2002, 5:33 AM
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BEEF!!!!!11111
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collegekid
Dec 31, 2002, 5:40 AM
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beans and rice...durrrrrrrrrrrr
tofu
nuts
has anyone else here noticed how american culture kinda brainwashes you? I've noticed that i don't consider a meal a "meal" unless it has some sort of meat main dish....when in reality you don't need meat OR dairy at all. Even though i know this, i still feel compelled to eat meat. The whole food pyramid i learned in elementary school...total B.S.!!!! How can dairy and meat be such a huge part of your diet, when they aren't really neccessary at all? Also, grains aren't all that important either. It's total brainwash.
But it's a part of our culture, so rather than go against the flow i consume, consume, consume.
[ This Message was edited by: collegekid on 2002-12-30 21:42 ]
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moabbeth
Dec 31, 2002, 5:45 AM
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I drink tons of milk. Eat yogurt daily, cheese sometimes. Nuts are always good (but high in fat). Soy protein cereal. And occasionally powdered protein drinks if I feel lacking. It's hard though, I probably don't get as much as I need but I try. I just like fruits, veggies and bread best. Unfortunately, no protein there.
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one900johnnyk
Dec 31, 2002, 5:57 AM
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what are your reasons for becoming a vegetarian? w/o animal proteins you can kiss building muscle goodbye so drink lots of milk, if you find that ethically acceptable and whatnot... whey is really good too
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collegekid
Dec 31, 2002, 6:26 AM
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actually milk isn't so great for you...high in fat (i guess you can go for non-fat)
my favorite sources of protien are chicken and fish (canned tuna is waaaayyy easy to prepare)
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funktimonious
Dec 31, 2002, 8:58 AM
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I'm vegetarian, but not vegan. I've started eating fish once and a while. If you read the nutritional content of the stuff you eat, you'll notice that cheeses, beans, milk and tofu will add up over the course of your day to more than fulfill your RDA. It's really pretty easy and not a problem. I say go for vegetarianism.
And remember, we do it because we hate plants...and must eat them.
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leon0tron
Dec 31, 2002, 9:16 AM
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In respect to an earlier post someone said you dont put on muscle without animal proteins, this is not true. Ive been a vegetarian since the summer and I am still putting on muscle mass. In place of protein get some TVP (textured vegetable protein) from a health food shop. It's just like mince meat when you put it in food. I make lasagne and chilli a lot with this stuff and you can barely notice the difference.
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climbingcowboy
Dec 31, 2002, 10:07 AM
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working in the medical field there really isnt a big diffrence in when you die, and there's just as many veggie people that come in sick as otherwise. so i dont see the advantges. and besides look at what you'll do to so many familys like mine, theve already put a impact on the way of life i knew.
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zorg
Dec 31, 2002, 12:02 PM
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Hey cowboy
working in the biology field, I have read quite a number of studies that showed vegetarians to be healtier in a number of studies. (And probably less healthy in other).
I know quite a lot of people that are vegetarians (quite a few climbers among them), and all of them are healthy people. I think it is not so much eating meat or not that matters, but what you eat beside it. Enough fruit, low fat etc.
I've been a vegetarian for 10+ years now, and still feel pretty good. It is up to yourself to decide to become a vegetarian or not, but there is definately no health risk involved.
Jasja
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jeffe
Dec 31, 2002, 12:19 PM
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Can't remember the name, but one of the professional male bodybuilders in the mid 80's was a vegetarian. A question to those who like to cook. Where can I find some good vegetarian recipes?
[ This Message was edited by: jeffe on 2002-12-31 05:14 ]
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redpoint73
Dec 31, 2002, 12:55 PM
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collegekid: American culture doesn't "brainwash" you. Its called "culture" for a reason. People in different countries eat different things. The meat industries TRY to perpetuate these behaviors in order to make more money (Does anyone acutally BELIEVE that pork is the other white meat?!?!?!?). But it mostly just comes down to what you have grown up eating, and what your friends (and other people around you) eat.
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redpoint73
Dec 31, 2002, 1:00 PM
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One900johnnyk: The notion that you can't build muscle without "animal protein" is idiotic. Where are you getting your information from????? There is no such thing as "animal protein"!!! Protein is Protein. Period. it doesn't matter where you get it from. Beans, lentils, soy products, nuts all have protein. There are plenty of vegetarians around that are WICKED STRONG.
And you only need a little bit of protein a day to build and maintain muscle mass -- something like 30 grams a day. Americans eat a RIDICULOUS amount of protein -- much more than what is required.
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zorg
Dec 31, 2002, 1:09 PM
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Yeah. Isn't Chris Sharma a vegetarian? Not sure. A VERY good resource for recipes is
http://www.ivu.org/recipes/
Have fun,
happy New Year
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climbingcowboy
Dec 31, 2002, 1:50 PM
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i understand that people can be as healthy not eating meat BUT not always more healthy, of course were talking a healthy selection on both sides. My whole family along with numerous other cowboys were raised on meat and potatoes every night was either steak, pork chops, or deer, and my dad and them are as strong as a bull, they are completly healthy as am I. I'm not saying that anyone is stupid for going veggie, but anyone who makes all these claims that its soooo much healthier is just plain wrong. Not trying to flame people so please dont take it that way.
[ This Message was edited by: climbingcowboy on 2002-12-31 05:54 ]
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bitterlotus
Dec 31, 2002, 2:38 PM
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WHAT is this idea that you can eat fish and still be a vegetarian????? GD church!
Use the freakin' dictionary -- Vegetarianism is defined as the practice of living solely upon vegetables, fruits, grains, and nuts, generally for ethical, ascetic, or nutritional reasons. ALL forms of flesh (meat, fowl, and fish) are excluded from the diet. VEGANism is the practice of abstaining from ALL animal products, such as milk and leather as well as meat.
Simply not eating red meat does not make you a vegetarian if you consume aquatic animals. What -- animals that don't live on land aren't animals?? If you eat any animals, YOU'RE NOT VEGETARIAN, end of story. Tell your priest to take it up with me if you're whining like a b*tch, "But during Lent, I eat fish and my priest tells me I'm vegetarian..."
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one900johnnyk
Dec 31, 2002, 2:41 PM
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protein is not protein. that is why certain combinations of food are recommended. rice and beans, etc.. ever hear of incomplete proteins/? there are many amino acids your body needs and things like eggs and whey have tons of these amino acids, but other things don't. but it has been shown your body does not assimilate protein as efficiently (regarding needs for building muscle mass) w/o animal proteins. whoever said protein is protein is just wrong, when you're talking about what you can get out of certain foods.
also, excuse the hyperbole if i said you can't build ANY muscle w/o animal proteins. there has actually been one bodybuilder that i'm aware of who did even compete professionally on the ifbb circuit (in the 70s i think, can't remember his name.. i dont' think he ever won). but i do think that he allowed himself to eat things like eggs, milk, cheese, and possibly fish.
PS to everyone: if you disagree with someone about something.. or anything don't get super pissed and bash the person in subsequent posts. have a discussion about it w/o being mean. act like a grown up. and if youweren't behind your computer there is no way you would talk like that to me (unless you were a total jerk and had no sense of self preservation) so please do not in here either. sheesh.
john
art and opinions were made to clash
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saxonz
Dec 31, 2002, 2:42 PM
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Yeah, give up the meat for sure.I've noticed my yoga students, the ones who eat meat, dairy and plenty of sugar seem to have ossified tendons, ligaments and muscular connective tissue.( endomysium, perimysium and epimysium) I think this is due to the acidic residue left by crap(its a clinical term) foods. They are less flexible, have less endurance and don't smell as good.
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one900johnnyk
Dec 31, 2002, 2:46 PM
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don't believe everything you read but here is an article that briefly discusses the completeness (is that a word?) of different proteins, hailing egg and milk as the two most complete of nature's proteins:
http://www.exercisegroup.com/nbaf0201iew.htm
*edit to add the following:
regarding that animal protein is the best (but again, not the only) for building muscle skip to the forth paragraph in this article:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne3.htm
additional, you can logically assume animal protein is the best for buildling muscle as the most popular protein supplements (specifically whey and egg) are all animal proteins.
happy new year
[ This Message was edited by: one900johnnyk on 2002-12-31 06:52 ]
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redpoint73
Dec 31, 2002, 3:26 PM
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on900johnnyk: I apologise if your took my previous post as confrontational. Your subsequent posts are much more lucid than your original, which has persuaded me to look into the matter some more. Learning is cool.
Here is my interpretation: Different food types have different concentrations of various amino acids. In general, meats have the highest concentration of all the essential amino acids. Most "vegetarian" foods are rich in some amino acids and lack others, but you can ingest all the amino acids neccesary to muscle development by eating a variety of non-animal foods. Rockpossum, I see what you are saying. But, animal proteins do not "metabolize more efficiantly" (i.e. "faster"), but rather, you are getting all the neccessary amino acids by eating one food product as opposed to several. Some people may take this to mean that meat is the "best" source of amino acids, but a vegetarian would likely disagree.
If your goal is to make sure you are getting all the essential proteins everyday, then I suppose meats and dairy are an easy way of accomplishing that. But (in spirit of the original question) it is not difficult to have a vegetarian diet, and get all the neccessary amino acids for building muscle. You just have to make sure you eat the right variety of foods, and it takes a little more planning. And if you are a serious athlete, you are doing a bit of diet planning in any case.
Maybe getting enough amino acids from vegan sources may be difficult if you want to be a body builder. Many of those bodybuilder guys are taking some kind of protein/amino supplement anyway -- so even they need "extra" aminos not in thier diet. But for climbers, I don't feel that a vegetarian diet is not a constraint on your muscle development.
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ksfrogman
Dec 31, 2002, 3:31 PM
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climbing cowboy,
I did research for the Adventist Health Study when I was working on my masters in epidemiology and biostatistics. There was an average 10 year longevity advantage of strict vegetarians and ovalactose vegetarians vs. those with mixed (meat-containing) diets due to the decrease in cardiovascular morbidity.
Then, I went to medical school, followed by internship/residency and medical practice; yet, that topic was never formally addressed in detail throughout medical training.
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one900johnnyk
Dec 31, 2002, 3:34 PM
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frogman: interesting study but did it account for things like meat eaters having a higher affinity for the couch and television? did you study meat eaters who also exersized at least three days a week, and did not have blatant disregard for the things they put into their body? (like not only frying your squirrel meat, but also turning the grease from the pan into gravy and pouring that on your fried squirrel??)
your findings are pretty damn striking, though! 10 yrs, yikes
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data118
Dec 31, 2002, 4:00 PM
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All this talk of food is making me hungry!
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micronut
Dec 31, 2002, 4:40 PM
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animal protein the best, please. Who commisioned that study, the National Dariy Council? The most assimilatable protein on the planet is hemp seeds. I'd again recommend reading John Robbins classic work, "Diet for a New America" for some un-emotional quality information. Included is the fact that the nessecity of high protein intake is a myth. It's not how big your muscles are, but how well you can "fire" them. That's what matrial artists have discovered. It's mind/will power that causes the muscle to fire.
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