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dynosore
Apr 18, 2011, 3:59 PM
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csproul wrote: rnevius wrote: clymber wrote: take them outside and see how good those strong indoor climbers do.....totally different ball game when the stuff isnt taped for you... This. This...is also what many an insecure climber likes to tell themselves when they see that 12 year kid cruise their project on their 2nd day. Truth is, it'd be much easier to take that 12 year old who can climb hard indoors, and teach him/her to climb hard outside and maybe even climb hard on gear. Much easier than taking a old wanna-be (much like myself) who can climb efficiently outside, on gear, and try to teach them to climb hard. If you can pull hard, there is nothing all that difficult about learning to do so outside or over gear.
I disagree. How many "5.12" climbers can safely lead 5.12 trad? This attitude is perhaps part of the reason people are hitting the deck with regularity.
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csproul
Apr 18, 2011, 4:06 PM
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dynosore wrote: csproul wrote: rnevius wrote: clymber wrote: take them outside and see how good those strong indoor climbers do.....totally different ball game when the stuff isnt taped for you... This. This...is also what many an insecure climber likes to tell themselves when they see that 12 year kid cruise their project on their 2nd day. Truth is, it'd be much easier to take that 12 year old who can climb hard indoors, and teach him/her to climb hard outside and maybe even climb hard on gear. Much easier than taking a old wanna-be (much like myself) who can climb efficiently outside, on gear, and try to teach them to climb hard. If you can pull hard, there is nothing all that difficult about learning to do so outside or over gear. I disagree. How many "5.12" climbers can safely lead 5.12 trad? This attitude is perhaps part of the reason people are hitting the deck with regularity.
(This post was edited by csproul on Apr 18, 2011, 4:33 PM)
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l3uddy789
Apr 18, 2011, 4:15 PM
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Bats wrote: A friend of mine girlfriend started to climb. The first week she was at 5.7-5.8s. The second week she was at 5.9s. Third week comfortably 5.10s. Then about a year later she is climbing 5.12s and brushing 5.13s. When I saw her climbing 5.10s in her third week, I had to asked "how?" I found out she is a former gymnast. Another girl I know is also a former gymnast and is climbing 5.10s within 5 months of climbing. My friend's boyfriend is also a former gymnast and he started out on 5.10s. So there is something to the gymnastic thing. I think Lynn Hill was also a gymnast.
I was a gymnast for ten years. It helped a lot with climbing... In gymnast you work all the little muscles in your body and get them very strong. The same is for climbing. Thus gymnasts have an easier time climbing because they have already built up those little muscles all over their body that is normally takes others longer to build. Also gymnasts are used to having torn up hands so that is never a problem.
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ChalkIsCheap
Apr 18, 2011, 5:12 PM
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My first day climbing (July 1st) I was sending 5.8's and 5.9's (with one hang). Second day I was sending 5.9's. Third day I was sending 5.10's and 5.10+'s (with one hang). Started lead a few months later and started pushing 11's. Now I will do any 10 or 11 on lead and only top rope it if I am trying to work out a stupid move. Currently I am trying to make the jump into 12's now and Trying to get more outdoor in once this weather gets better.
I started a little fast but have been slowing down quite a bit. My hands and joints are one of my weakest links and am fully prepared to slow down as I have already gotten an injury or two from over exerting myself in the past. Though I was in great shape when I started climbing and I was a crazy monkey when I was a kid and climbed everything I could find. Outdoor grade is much different then in the gym but I am always comfortable getting on the sharp end as long as I trust my abilities and don't go over my head.
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special_blend
Apr 18, 2011, 5:33 PM
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HAHAHA the OP is quoting me who had a question about taking what i've learned in the gym outside. So take that comment with a grain of salt as from what I understand; indoor 11d's are nothing like outdoor 11d's. By comfortably climbing 11d's I also mean that I can send them without dogging it, moving my feet quietly and not scrambling up, ON TOP ROPE. Which was the second portion of my question thread, "should I get into lead climbing sooner than later?"
It's also maybe worth noting that I tried to get into climbing when I was a teenager but couldn't give it much time as I was busy with a training schedule for marathon running and DH Ski racing. Been an athlete most my life and I tend to get a little obsessive with sports, especially new ones. Reading books, training daily, and watching video's of pros and carefully analyzing there every move.
(This post was edited by special_blend on Apr 18, 2011, 5:43 PM)
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potreroed
Apr 18, 2011, 5:40 PM
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I've known a few climbers who were climbing 11's after just a couple of months (one guy led a 13d in one year!) but most of them ended up with tendon injuries.
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flesh
Apr 18, 2011, 11:38 PM
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dynosore wrote: Kartessa wrote: Edit: Forgot to add TOPROPE makes a huge difference, there's no mental game. On top of that, I've met dozens of people who will say they climbed a 5.whatever when in reality they spent 90% of the time hanging on the rope. I can climb 5.13d if hangdogging on a gym toprope counts as a send. Put these "11d" climbers on Bachar Yerian, or an offwidth, and you'd quickly find out they really aren't 11d climbers. I'd rather call myself a 5.9 climber and be able to do any 5.9 than call myself a 5.11 climber because I can do 5.11 crimpy faces but no other 5.11 climb. That's just me though.....
DUDE, bachar yerian? So if I'm not willing to take 60 foot falls and potentially kill myself I can't climb 5.11, lol.
Also, I have a friend who's done 5.12+ offwidth including a first ascent at the grade, he can't climb 5.12d sport routes, he's just good at offwidth's because that's what he climbs regularly. He enjoys the pain.
If you've redpointed a coule routes at a certain grade, I can't see how someone could argue you can't climb that grade.
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guangzhou
Apr 19, 2011, 12:20 AM
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I think people climbing 5.10 and 5.11 in six months is more and more common these days., Mostly because of a shift in what is considered hard and not hard.
When I started climbing, running into someone who climbed 5.10 at the crag was rare. 5.10 was consider a hard grade, today, it's not.
I taught my wife to climb while developing anew crag here in Indonesia. Her first route was a first ascent and rated 5.9. She spent the rest of the school year climbing on 5.9, 5.10, and low end 5.111 because those were the easiest routes on the cliff. When we took a summer trip to America, we followed me on single pitch 5.9 and 5.10 cracks in Yosemite. Cruise the nutcracker with 5.9 start.
On Donner Summit, she cruised several 5.10 routes. She didn't struggle until she go on her first slab route. (Some 5.9 under the bridge on Donner. We spent a day on school rock getting her used to slabs, then head over to Grouse Slab and did a few slab routes there. Most were 5.9 or 5.10.
While she does workout in a fitness center, she was never a dedicated athlete or gymlist. One reason she progressed quickly was because all the routes were harder, so if she wanted to climb, she had no easy routes to choose. She also had an experience climber to help her learn a bit faster.
9 months into climbing, she did her first lead. The route was rate 5.10- (Sport) It was the safest lead around, and she had climbed the route already. Sometimes she leads, but she prefer not too in genral.
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wingding
Apr 19, 2011, 12:40 AM
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flesh wrote: dynosore wrote: Kartessa wrote: Edit: Forgot to add TOPROPE makes a huge difference, there's no mental game. On top of that, I've met dozens of people who will say they climbed a 5.whatever when in reality they spent 90% of the time hanging on the rope. I can climb 5.13d if hangdogging on a gym toprope counts as a send. Put these "11d" climbers on Bachar Yerian, or an offwidth, and you'd quickly find out they really aren't 11d climbers. I'd rather call myself a 5.9 climber and be able to do any 5.9 than call myself a 5.11 climber because I can do 5.11 crimpy faces but no other 5.11 climb. That's just me though..... DUDE, bachar yerian? So if I'm not willing to take 60 foot falls and potentially kill myself I can't climb 5.11, lol. Also, I have a friend who's done 5.12+ offwidth including a first ascent at the grade, he can't climb 5.12d sport routes, he's just good at offwidth's because that's what he climbs regularly. He enjoys the pain. If you've redpointed a coule routes at a certain grade, I can't see how someone could argue you can't climb that grade.
Personally I'd rather quote my onsight grade. Maybe it's just me, but I feel that the onsight grade is a better indication of what I climb then a redpointed climb that may of taken weeks or months to dial the moves on.
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clc
Apr 19, 2011, 12:58 AM
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I know a few young climbers red pointing super steep juggy 5.12's after 6 months of climbing. But would flail on a 5.10- face.
Being light and strong on steep juggy routes can compensate for tecnique up to a point
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rtwilli4
Apr 19, 2011, 2:05 AM
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flesh wrote: dynosore wrote: Kartessa wrote: Edit: Forgot to add TOPROPE makes a huge difference, there's no mental game. On top of that, I've met dozens of people who will say they climbed a 5.whatever when in reality they spent 90% of the time hanging on the rope. I can climb 5.13d if hangdogging on a gym toprope counts as a send. Put these "11d" climbers on Bachar Yerian, or an offwidth, and you'd quickly find out they really aren't 11d climbers. I'd rather call myself a 5.9 climber and be able to do any 5.9 than call myself a 5.11 climber because I can do 5.11 crimpy faces but no other 5.11 climb. That's just me though..... DUDE, bachar yerian? So if I'm not willing to take 60 foot falls and potentially kill myself I can't climb 5.11, lol. Also, I have a friend who's done 5.12+ offwidth including a first ascent at the grade, he can't climb 5.12d sport routes, he's just good at offwidth's because that's what he climbs regularly. He enjoys the pain. If you've redpointed a coule routes at a certain grade, I can't see how someone could argue you can't climb that grade.
I think to say that you are a 5.11 climber then you need to be able to on-sight 5.11 anywhere. I've on-sighted plenty of 5.11 trad and sport routes (up to 11c) and red-pointed more than a handful of .12's, all pretty quickly. And I don't count softly graded climbs or else I'd have to add a ton more 5.12's to the list. When someone asks what grade I climb I say 5.10.
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styndall
Apr 19, 2011, 2:18 AM
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I just scuff my toes on the ground, blush, and claim not to climb at all. After all, I can't guarantee that there's no fourth class move that I wouldn't fall on on my worst day.
Alternatively, it makes sense to claim the grades you climb most often.
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guangzhou
Apr 19, 2011, 2:34 AM
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rtwilli4 wrote: flesh wrote: dynosore wrote: Kartessa wrote: Edit: Forgot to add TOPROPE makes a huge difference, there's no mental game. On top of that, I've met dozens of people who will say they climbed a 5.whatever when in reality they spent 90% of the time hanging on the rope. I can climb 5.13d if hangdogging on a gym toprope counts as a send. Put these "11d" climbers on Bachar Yerian, or an offwidth, and you'd quickly find out they really aren't 11d climbers. I'd rather call myself a 5.9 climber and be able to do any 5.9 than call myself a 5.11 climber because I can do 5.11 crimpy faces but no other 5.11 climb. That's just me though..... DUDE, bachar yerian? So if I'm not willing to take 60 foot falls and potentially kill myself I can't climb 5.11, lol. Also, I have a friend who's done 5.12+ offwidth including a first ascent at the grade, he can't climb 5.12d sport routes, he's just good at offwidth's because that's what he climbs regularly. He enjoys the pain. If you've redpointed a coule routes at a certain grade, I can't see how someone could argue you can't climb that grade. I think to say that you are a 5.11 climber then you need to be able to on-sight 5.11 anywhere. I've on-sighted plenty of 5.11 trad and sport routes (up to 11c) and red-pointed more than a handful of .12's, all pretty quickly. And I don't count softly graded climbs or else I'd have to add a ton more 5.12's to the list. When someone asks what grade I climb I say 5.10.
I agree. While I consider myself a 5.10 climber, it doesn't mean I never fall on 5.10. Yes, I on-sight routes in the 5.10 and 5.11, some low end 5.12 too, but I have blown moves on 5.10 too.
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Masterkush
Apr 19, 2011, 10:58 AM
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Ive been climbing for 5 months, and 1 of those months i was out do to injury, and honestly i havnt sport climbed that much so i cant say my skill level for it but i boulder V3s easy and have a number of 4 and 5s under my belt
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bearbreeder
Apr 19, 2011, 2:48 PM
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in a gym .... well throw em on a 5.11d on lead on real rock and see what happens ... not top rope tough guys on plastic ...
on the internet i can climb any grade i want .. 
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ChalkIsCheap
Apr 19, 2011, 4:45 PM
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special_blend wrote: HAHAHA the OP is quoting me who had a question about taking what i've learned in the gym outside. So take that comment with a grain of salt as from what I understand; indoor 11d's are nothing like outdoor 11d's. By comfortably climbing 11d's I also mean that I can send them without dogging it, moving my feet quietly and not scrambling up, ON TOP ROPE. Which was the second portion of my question thread, "should I get into lead climbing sooner than later?" It's also maybe worth noting that I tried to get into climbing when I was a teenager but couldn't give it much time as I was busy with a training schedule for marathon running and DH Ski racing. Been an athlete most my life and I tend to get a little obsessive with sports, especially new ones. Reading books, training daily, and watching video's of pros and carefully analyzing there every move.
I understand that the OP is quoting you. I have read your threads before. The OP was just looking for stories for comparison and I was merely providing mine for his collection. I am aware of the grade difference from gym to outdoor and have experienced it first hand. there are 5.6's that feel like 10's cause the rock you are clinging to is all rotten and hollow. There are 5.10's that are easier then the 5.6 right beside it.
Everything I do in the gym is always lead as long as it is bolted. I never consider it a send unless I do it clean with no doggin. To me that is considered a failure. As for outdoor, now that summer is here I just want to get more under my belt...
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boadman
Apr 19, 2011, 8:05 PM
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Kartessa wrote: I can climb 5.13d if hangdogging on a gym toprope counts as a send.
No you can't.
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flesh
Apr 19, 2011, 8:30 PM
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guangzhou wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: flesh wrote: dynosore wrote: Kartessa wrote: Edit: Forgot to add TOPROPE makes a huge difference, there's no mental game. On top of that, I've met dozens of people who will say they climbed a 5.whatever when in reality they spent 90% of the time hanging on the rope. I can climb 5.13d if hangdogging on a gym toprope counts as a send. Put these "11d" climbers on Bachar Yerian, or an offwidth, and you'd quickly find out they really aren't 11d climbers. I'd rather call myself a 5.9 climber and be able to do any 5.9 than call myself a 5.11 climber because I can do 5.11 crimpy faces but no other 5.11 climb. That's just me though..... DUDE, bachar yerian? So if I'm not willing to take 60 foot falls and potentially kill myself I can't climb 5.11, lol. Also, I have a friend who's done 5.12+ offwidth including a first ascent at the grade, he can't climb 5.12d sport routes, he's just good at offwidth's because that's what he climbs regularly. He enjoys the pain. If you've redpointed a coule routes at a certain grade, I can't see how someone could argue you can't climb that grade. I think to say that you are a 5.11 climber then you need to be able to on-sight 5.11 anywhere. I've on-sighted plenty of 5.11 trad and sport routes (up to 11c) and red-pointed more than a handful of .12's, all pretty quickly. And I don't count softly graded climbs or else I'd have to add a ton more 5.12's to the list. When someone asks what grade I climb I say 5.10. I agree. While I consider myself a 5.10 climber, it doesn't mean I never fall on 5.10. Yes, I on-sight routes in the 5.10 and 5.11, some low end 5.12 too, but I have blown moves on 5.10 too.
Wait a second Guangzhou, I'm getting confused... you blow 5.10 moves sometimes, you've onsighted some low end 5.12s but just a week or two ago you posted this in the "how many pull ups can a 5.14 climber do" thread in the technique and training forum.
guangzhou
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Apr 11, 2011, 12:23 AM
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Re: [jt512] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go? [In reply to]
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As someone who spent several years climbing, developing, and guiding on the Island of Okinawa, yes.
I took plenty of Marine who could not only dead hand on their finger tips much longer than the climbers but could also do more finger tip pull-ups. Non of them climbed harder than the climbers did.
On the 5.14 front, I have not done one yet, but I will. Came Very Close to doing one of Sharma's 5.14 on Okinawa, but close isn't god enough in my book.
While I do think that the Individual's strength to weight ratio is important, I don't think that a climber with higher strength to weight ratio will necessarily out climb the weaker Strength to weight ratio.
Jay, you sure spend a lot of time in the middle of night posting.
That's weird, any of you folks know someone who can almost climb 5.14 that has only onsighted some low end 5.12s?
This makes me think that maybe you we're just saying this to bolster your argument, you wouldn't do that would you?
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guangzhou
Apr 20, 2011, 12:08 AM
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flesh wrote: guangzhou wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: flesh wrote: dynosore wrote: Kartessa wrote: Edit: Forgot to add TOPROPE makes a huge difference, there's no mental game. On top of that, I've met dozens of people who will say they climbed a 5.whatever when in reality they spent 90% of the time hanging on the rope. I can climb 5.13d if hangdogging on a gym toprope counts as a send. Put these "11d" climbers on Bachar Yerian, or an offwidth, and you'd quickly find out they really aren't 11d climbers. I'd rather call myself a 5.9 climber and be able to do any 5.9 than call myself a 5.11 climber because I can do 5.11 crimpy faces but no other 5.11 climb. That's just me though..... DUDE, bachar yerian? So if I'm not willing to take 60 foot falls and potentially kill myself I can't climb 5.11, lol. Also, I have a friend who's done 5.12+ offwidth including a first ascent at the grade, he can't climb 5.12d sport routes, he's just good at offwidth's because that's what he climbs regularly. He enjoys the pain. If you've redpointed a coule routes at a certain grade, I can't see how someone could argue you can't climb that grade. I think to say that you are a 5.11 climber then you need to be able to on-sight 5.11 anywhere. I've on-sighted plenty of 5.11 trad and sport routes (up to 11c) and red-pointed more than a handful of .12's, all pretty quickly. And I don't count softly graded climbs or else I'd have to add a ton more 5.12's to the list. When someone asks what grade I climb I say 5.10. I agree. While I consider myself a 5.10 climber, it doesn't mean I never fall on 5.10. Yes, I on-sight routes in the 5.10 and 5.11, some low end 5.12 too, but I have blown moves on 5.10 too. Wait a second Guangzhou, I'm getting confused... you blow 5.10 moves sometimes, you've onsighted some low end 5.12s but just a week or two ago you posted this in the "how many pull ups can a 5.14 climber do" thread in the technique and training forum.
What is so confusing about my posting what I wrote? Can you clarify?
I wrote
In reply to: guangzhou PM Friend Indonesia Apr 11, 2011, 12:23 AM Post #141 of 153 (330 views) Copy Shortcut Registered: Sep 26, 2004 Posts: 2291 Re: [jt512] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go? [In reply to] Report this Post Your vote: Average: (0 ratings) Quote | Reply -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As someone who spent several years climbing, developing, and guiding on the Island of Okinawa, yes. I took plenty of Marine who could not only dead hand on their finger tips much longer than the climbers but could also do more finger tip pull-ups. Non of them climbed harder than the climbers did. On the 5.14 front, I have not done one yet, but I will. Came Very Close to doing one of Sharma's 5.14 on Okinawa, but close isn't god enough in my book. While I do think that the Individual's strength to weight ratio is important, I don't think that a climber with higher strength to weight ratio will necessarily out climb the weaker Strength to weight ratio. Jay, you sure spend a lot of time in the middle of night posting.
Not sure who wrote this.
In reply to: That's weird, any of you folks know someone who can almost climb 5.14 that has only onsighted some low end 5.12s? This makes me think that maybe you we're just saying this to bolster your argument, you wouldn't do that would you?
Yes, I've onsighted low end 5.12s. 12a/b My hardest onsight is 5.13a, that was a few years ago when I was living on Okinawa and climbing much more. Only worked 20 hours week there.
While on Okinawa, I worked on a 5.14 over a 3 years plus period. I didn't commit myself to the route, but I worked on it when ever I was at that crag and felt good. Near the end of the three years, I could reach the anchors every-time, but I never reached the anchors without hanging on the rope. (Two hangs was my best.) of those, the absolute best was me blowing the belay clip after just one hang. (Still counts as two hangs in my book) I left Okinawa roughly four years ago.
Now, here in Indonesia, I climb mostly on weekend and I mostly developing routes because they were non when I arrived. So, I am not climbing as consistently or getting as much mileage on trips. Putting up routes take more time than just climbing. It's not unusual to spend two or three weekend hanging from a rope cleaning and bolting with no climbing getting done.
Because of this, my climbing fitness as declined. My hardest red-point during the last two years is 5.13b. Took three tries, but I bolted the route so knew where all the holds were.
Just last month, while climbing in Thailand, I on-sighted a 7b, which felt more like 5.12a to me, and two 7c, but fell when my foot slipped on a 6A the same day. Falling on easier routes happens.
The next day, I climbed a very nice 7c on my second try. I fell at the third bolt, came down, drank some water. Decided to give the route another go and climbed to the top without much effort.
Yes, I fall on routes that are easier then routes I've on-sighted.
Yes, my climbing performance rises and falls.
No, Ive never red pointed a 5.14, but I've come close.
With all that said, I still consider myself a very solid 5.10 climbers.
Let me know if this clarifies anything for you.
(This post was edited by guangzhou on Apr 20, 2011, 12:32 AM)
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jbro_135
Apr 20, 2011, 12:46 AM
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So I guess Sharma is just a really solid 5.12 climber?
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blueeyedclimber
Apr 20, 2011, 12:53 AM
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jbro_135 wrote: So I guess Sharma is just a really solid 5.12 climber?
All this internet spray is hurting my head. BUT.........since we're at it.....I can send your projects in my flip flops, and with only 3 hangs.
Josh
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macblaze
Apr 20, 2011, 1:47 AM
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At his point I retract all my earlier statements and can definitively state that I was climbing 5.12c after 4 months due to an all-meat diet but then I ate a carrot. Haven't sent higher than 5.10 since.
But I have great technique with a ham sandwich...
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guangzhou
Apr 20, 2011, 1:55 AM
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jbro_135 wrote: So I guess Sharma is just a really solid 5.12 climber?
In my book, you would have to ask him, not me. If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that he said something to that effect after trying some long routes in a day in Yosemite.
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guangzhou
Apr 20, 2011, 2:54 AM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: jbro_135 wrote: So I guess Sharma is just a really solid 5.12 climber? All this internet spray is hurting my head. BUT.........since we're at it.....I can send your projects in my flip flops, and with only 3 hangs. Josh
What Spray Josh?
How do you definition spray?
When is mentioning a grade to show an example ok and when does it become spray in your book?
Actually, sounds like a new blog post idea, headed there now to ask those very questions.
To me, Spray implies bragging about your accomplishments. Not sure I see anyone bragging here?
Spray is also an attitude that implies the person is better than the other because of those accomplishments.
I don't see anyone here bragging about their climbing..
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bearbreeder
Apr 20, 2011, 4:24 AM
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does it really matter ... you can climb it or you cant ... its that simple
anyone who climbs even in the same area will realize that one climb of a grade can be "harder" than another climb of the same grade ...
generally people who yak about grades over and over again are just people looking to impress others or otherwise insecure IMO .... especially gym grades
i tend to talk about the climbs i screwed up on ... what would you rather hear ... "dude i totally top rope sent this gym 5.11d to impress this hawt chick" ... or "eff it, i was up 8 pitches on the chief, blew the unprotected 5.8 crux on the wet slab and slid 70 feet into a tree"
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