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DougMartin
Jul 8, 2011, 9:15 PM
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Most of us that have researched this have seen the DMM video that put Nylon and Dyneema to a head to head test. In my opinion nylon outperformed Dyneema hands down, yet I still see much more dyneema than nylon! Why so? What am I missing about dyneema? Sure its lighter, but do all of us climb big walls and care about the little extra weight! Or is it the abrasion factor, dyneema wears better? I need to buy new draws and have not been able to make up my mind on what to drop the two hundred bucks on! Dyneema or Nylon! Help me out make up my mind!
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jakedatc
Jul 8, 2011, 9:30 PM
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DougMartin wrote: Most of us that have researched this have seen the DMM video that put Nylon and Dyneema to a head to head test. In my opinion nylon outperformed Dyneema hands down, yet I still see much more dyneema than nylon! Why so? What am I missing about dyneema? Sure its lighter, but do all of us climb big walls and care about the little extra weight! Or is it the abrasion factor, dyneema wears better? I need to buy new draws and have not been able to make up my mind on what to drop the two hundred bucks on! Dyneema or Nylon! Help me out make up my mind!
for long slings or quickdraw dogbones?
for long slings i like dyneema since they take up less room on my harness. I have a mix of both though. dyneema definitely wears out faster since they are skinny.
for quickdraws nylon is much better in my opinion. I hate hate hate the skinny dyneema draws that seem to always twist.
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DougMartin
Jul 8, 2011, 9:36 PM
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I am replacing 6 -30cm draws and 6 - 60 cm draws and 3- 120cm draws! I simply have not decided on what to buy. The nylon is by far much cheaper ( by about $50) but if your life counts on it saving $50 seems foolish. Maybe your right a mix is the way to go long in Dyneema and short in nylon!
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moose_droppings
Jul 8, 2011, 10:42 PM
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DougMartin wrote: I am replacing 6 -30cm draws and 6 - 60 cm draws and 3- 120cm draws! I simply have not decided on what to buy. The nylon is by far much cheaper ( by about $50) but if your life counts on it saving $50 seems foolish. Maybe your right a mix is the way to go long in Dyneema and short in nylon!
Your life isn't in danger by going cheaper with nylon. It might very well be safer.
I got tired of replacing the expensive skinny slings often and went back to all nylon a couple years ago. They are a bit bulkier, but I've always racked on a chest harness/sling anyway. There's no long routes with more than 4 change overs here anyway.
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johnwesely
Jul 8, 2011, 10:43 PM
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DougMartin wrote: I am replacing 6 -30cm draws and 6 - 60 cm draws and 3- 120cm draws! I simply have not decided on what to buy. The nylon is by far much cheaper ( by about $50) but if your life counts on it saving $50 seems foolish. Maybe your right a mix is the way to go long in Dyneema and short in nylon!
Your life does not count on it in the sense that one is safer than the other. I would get dyneema for anything longer than a quickdraw dogbone. Nylon is just way to bulky. There is nothing fun about climbing with a heavy or bulky rack, especially when the price difference between a super heavy and super light rack is so negligible.
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jakedatc
Jul 8, 2011, 10:44 PM
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DougMartin wrote: I am replacing 6 -30cm draws and 6 - 60 cm draws and 3- 120cm draws! I simply have not decided on what to buy. The nylon is by far much cheaper ( by about $50) but if your life counts on it saving $50 seems foolish. Maybe your right a mix is the way to go long in Dyneema and short in nylon!
Yea.. 4 footers in dyneema is definitely the way to go.. crazy bulky in nylon.
I would skip the 1 footer/ 30cm.. if you are going to leave it short then leave a 60cm short but if you want to extend it then you'll usually want 60cm anyway.. personally i hate how 30's hang down too far.
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gunkiemike
Jul 8, 2011, 11:52 PM
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Yes, your life depends on your slings. And your rope, and you biners.
"So if you'd follow me over here, we have a nice selection of $400 ropes, $18 slings, and $20 biners that are going to make you feel REAL good..."
Now, about those $100 cams...
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DougMartin
Jul 9, 2011, 12:22 AM
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Exactly my point, more expensive does not always make it better.
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jakedatc
Jul 9, 2011, 12:46 AM
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gunkiemike wrote: Yes, your life depends on your slings. And your rope, and you biners. "So if you'd follow me over here, we have a nice selection of $400 ropes, $18 slings, and $20 biners that are going to make you feel REAL good..." Now, about those $100 cams...
hehe reminds me when i worked at EMS.. a guy came in insisting he wanted a 11mm lead rope.. i'm like ya really don't... plus they don't even make them anymore hehe. he's like well.. i'm gunna keep looking.
apparently our nice bluewater 10.5's weren't thick enough for him :P
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rescueman
Jul 9, 2011, 1:21 AM
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DougMartin wrote: In my opinion nylon outperformed Dyneema hands down, yet I still see much more dyneema than nylon! Why so?
Because "new and better" sells. Everyone is drawn like moths to a flame to the latest high-tech material or gear. And, for those who are addicted to extreme sports, shaving every ounce is key.
For some of us old trad guys, tried-and-true beats new-and-better every time. And there's nothing wrong with saving a few bucks.
For trad climbing, all my slings are nylon. In rescue, I never use any high-strength cordage or webbing. Nylon is king.
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notapplicable
Jul 9, 2011, 2:19 AM
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When I replaced my old nylon slings, I went with blend as well. I find them to be a happy middle ground when it comes to bulk, durability, strength and lifespan.
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moose_droppings
Jul 9, 2011, 4:18 AM
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I thought all dyneema slings from all manufacturers were mixed with nylon. Maybe your saying Bluewater's blend has a better mix ?
An all dyneema sling would be all white, right?
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bearbreeder
Jul 9, 2011, 6:39 AM
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rope stretch ...
DMM tests are static drops ... you dont fall on yr draws without a rope dya now ... never mind a harness
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qwert
Jul 9, 2011, 8:01 AM
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Wait, what are we talking about?
Slings (that stuff you carry over your shoulder, or in trad draws) or
Draws (that fixed little slings, firmly placed between two carabiners)?
Doesnt really matter though, since there is no definitive answer for both of those.
but anyways: For slings i have a mix. for anchoring, i try to use nylon, mainly for the DMM video reasons. For mid pitch use (slinging stuff, etc.) i use dynema, not mainly because its lighter, but rahter because its thinner. I rather sling a "hourglass" (does this term exist in english?) with a thin sling, than not sling it at all, because i cant fit anything in. also, for trad draws i prefer dynema, since they are way too bulky with nylon.
For draws i do not really have a preference, though i mostly use dynema, since nylon simply does not fit most modern biners. Never had issues with twisting.
qwert
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mikebee
Jul 9, 2011, 9:30 AM
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I use dyneema everything (slings and cordalette), because I like saving the weight and space compared to nylon.
Nylon is safer (more dynamic) and cheaper, so if you're a bit strapped for cash, or worried about the safety, then just buy nylon and don't question it. My cow's tail is dyneema too, but I know the limitations of it, I always stay below the point it's clipped in to, and I almost always keep it under tension (lean back onto the anchor). Keep in mind that most of the rap anchors I use are shiny new double bolt belays.
If you're worried about the dyneema increasing the impact force on your pieces causing them to fail, then the pieces are probably marginal enough they needed a screamer on them in the first place.
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acorneau
Jul 9, 2011, 1:27 PM
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moose_droppings wrote: I thought all dyneema slings from all manufacturers were mixed with nylon. Maybe your saying Bluewater's blend has a better mix ? An all dyneema sling would be all white, right?
Yes, AFAIK Dyneema won't take die so it's always white.
Unlike many other sling materials, BW's Titan slings contain a higher percentage of nylon to Dyneema (maybe 50/50?).
Again, the Titan slings are just my personal preference.
Edit to add: Just found this article from SuperTopo comparing different slings...
http://www.supertopo.com/...imbing-Slings-Review
(This post was edited by acorneau on Jul 9, 2011, 1:33 PM)
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moose_droppings
Jul 9, 2011, 3:40 PM
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Thanks, I kind of thought that's what you meant.
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bearbreeder
Jul 9, 2011, 4:47 PM
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qwert wrote: Wait, what are we talking about? Slings (that stuff you carry over your shoulder, or in trad draws) or Draws (that fixed little slings, firmly placed between two carabiners)?
the OP asked specifically about draws ...
either way the nylon vs. dyneema issue is a non issue when you climb with a rope in a system
theres a lot of other things that one should worry about ... like the condition of the slings, the placement of the gear, whether yr belayer will drop you, what youll hit on the way down ... etc ...
i find it funny that intraweb climbers go crazy about stuff that IMO doesnt really matter ...
its not like there are pile of bodies at the base of the crags from those deadly dyneema slings and draws ..
there are however tons of accidents from bad belays, miscommunication, head injuries, etc ...
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jakedatc
Jul 9, 2011, 5:03 PM
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bearbreeder wrote: qwert wrote: Wait, what are we talking about? Slings (that stuff you carry over your shoulder, or in trad draws) or Draws (that fixed little slings, firmly placed between two carabiners)? the OP asked specifically about draws ... either way the nylon vs. dyneema issue is a non issue when you climb with a rope in a system theres a lot of other things that one should worry about ... like the condition of the slings, the placement of the gear, whether yr belayer will drop you, what youll hit on the way down ... etc ... i find it funny that intraweb climbers go crazy about stuff that IMO doesnt really matter ... its not like there are pile of bodies at the base of the crags from those deadly dyneema slings and draws .. there are however tons of accidents from bad belays, miscommunication, head injuries, etc ...
Uhh.. he was talking about slings. 1', 2' and 4' lengths to be exact.
and the only difference between the nylon and dyneema to worry about is that dyneema draws are skinnier and wear out faster. For some replacing them more often is a good trade for smaller and lighter. some it is not so they get nylon.
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Rudmin
Jul 12, 2011, 1:50 AM
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It's nice to have a mix of different sling materials, nylon, dyneema-nylon blends, tubular. I usually throw nylon on anything that is really abrasive, like slinging chocks and trees. Sometimes nylon is nice for slinging a horn or flake because the bulk lets you wedge it in against the rock so it doesn't lift out. Sometimes dyneema is handy for these situations because the smaller size lets you thread keyholes or some such. In general I trust both equally and have more dyneema than nylon just because they are less bulky.
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Gmburns2000
Jul 12, 2011, 2:34 AM
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Well, this will make you run to dyneema in a hurry: I have nylon on my rack and I think they're OK. Yeah, dyneema racks better, but I'd rather carry that little extra weight and be safer than not. I use a chest sling anyway, so the bulkiness isn't so bad for me. Besides I can't afford to run out an replace my slings every year, so that's another reason I go with nylon.
However, I need to replace them and I'm thinking of getting the BW mixed slings. If I don't, it'll be nylon again.
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rescueman
Jul 12, 2011, 2:38 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: If I don't, it'll be nylon again.
Oh, no! Not again. How boring: cheap, safe and reliable. Where's the adventure in it?
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surfstar
Jul 12, 2011, 3:05 AM
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Yeah, I gave up my c4s - just too darn bulky and heavy with their nylon slings.
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rescueman
Jul 12, 2011, 3:26 AM
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It's all so damn bulky and heavy. I'm thinking of trading in my 10.2 nylon climbing ropes for 8mm aramid escape line.
Strong as hell and much less bulky. Can even withstand a fire up to 900°F. Who the hell cares if it doesn't stretch and fractures if it bends too much.
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