I thought of just anchoring the rope via slings to the stout tree who it WAS 25 ft behind me still. Wouldn't be NEAR the belay anchor tho but for a climb this short I didn't think that it would be TOO unsafe perhaps?

Attach rope to tree, tie alpine butterfly knot near cliff edge. Attach belay device and belayer to knot near edge. Climb on.

The rope will rub at the edge from hanging off of it from the tree so be carefull to protect it from sharp edges. If the belay device and belayer is over the edge then at least the climber end of the rope will not see any additional wear.

Good to look at what is behind "safe" in this context:

* A close-at-hand anchor is helpful if one needs to escape the belay while the climber is otherwise depending on the rope for protection of life. In this case, you'd probably just lower the climber.

* A close-at-hand anchor minimizes the belayer getting jerked around should the fall forces be out of line from climber to belayer to anchor - sort of like a nasty pendulum. This shouldn't be a problem if you have good enough alignment.

One issue I can think of is if the rope runs roughly horizontally from the tree to the belayer and then down over the cliff. If the climber falls, there's a potential to get body parts trapped/pinched between the loaded rope and the cliff edge. In these cases, I try to set up my belay stance carefully so at worse it'll just be a little uncomfortable when the rope is loaded. You can check this by doing a trial loading of the rig before the climber gets up very high (i.e., build up to having them fall off down low).

Another issue may be position of the brake hand - if using an ATC, it'll be up instead of down for the more typical belay from below.

You could avoid a lot of the above by using the climbing rope from tree to just above cliff edge - maybe quadruple it in this section to minimizing stretching and accompanying sawing action. Then use biners and slings to get a power point over the edge, perhaps with some padding at the edge. Use the rest of the rope to do a belay from below in the usual fashion.

Bill L

The alpine butterfly is a good knot that can be tied into the middle of a rope under load. Its easy to tie and works perfectly for this situation.

I do think in this instance that it should be okay to "violate the rule". We'll soon enough see if anyone here disagrees.

Still, it is possible to have a close-at-hand knotted loop in the rope going to the tree (e.g., figure 8 on a byte within arm's reach of the cliff edge). Actually, that might be nice just to anchor yourself before approaching the cliff edge for the belay from above.

Another thing I sometimes do in cases like this, tho usually to finish a lead: With myself tied into one end of the rope, run the rope around the tree and back to the cliff edge with a clove hitch on a locker on my belay loop. Adjust the clove hitch as needed for a nice sitting stance on the cliff edge. It is still possible to get that close-at-hand knotted loop if desired by treating both strands as one for tieing, say, the figure 8 on a bight.

Cheers!
Bill L

The alpine butterfly is a good knot that can be tied into the middle of a rope under load. Its easy to tie and works perfectly for this situation.

The alpine butterfly is a good knot that can be tied into the middle of a rope under load. Its easy to tie and works perfectly for this situation.

The alpine butterfly is a good knot that can be tied into the middle of a rope under load. Its easy to tie and works perfectly for this situation.

... I prob made it more difficult then it really was - or - over 'thank' it - but just didn't wanna do something unsafe - esp when teaching someone new (my girlfriend) - to rock climb - and want to teach her the proper 'safe' methods to climb, etc.

No, you would have to tie it before it was loaded. What I meant was that a load on the rope does not effect the knot.

You can always girth hitch or basket hitch a webbing sling to the tree and extend it, if necessary, with other webbing slings either girth hitched or basket hitched to the first one in order to get over the edge. Then you can do a bottom "sling-shot" belay and coach your girlfriend on her climb.

A Wrap 2 Pull 1 is more than sufficient for a TR anchor and it offers advantages over most other ways of slinging a tree with webbing:
1) It cinches and will stay in place off the ground if that's important to keep the anchor out of the mud or for a better angle to the edge and the tree is large enough - but without the strength loss of a girth hitch.
2) It self-equalizes to any angle of tension.
3) It offers the strength of 2 (W2P1) or 4 (W3P2) strands of webbing while isolating the knot from the tension.

Hmm, you are all over the place in different threads RM. Because here you advocate the W2P1 over the girth hitch for TR anchors.