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superchuffer
Jul 9, 2011, 9:16 PM
Post #176 of 266
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In reply to: How fucked up is your country if you think in a ''normal'' situation or professional setting this kind of thing (hugging children etc) should be common place?.
oh right, i forgot you are british. sorry mate, americans don't have huge billyclubs up their arses. takes the average brit a few pints or an E to even shake hands.
In reply to: So what are you trying to say?... that any coach in any situation should be able to pick up any kid and give them a hug
i never even implied as such.
In reply to: We had this attitude toward it 10 YEARS AGO.
I have heard that London is most watched city in the world with a camera on practically every corner. I get it that Euro counties are willing to sacrifice freedom for security. the difference is that I tentatively trust that the british government wouldn't abuse that power, i can't say that i would trust the american government to do the same. look at what they've done to bradly manning, environmental activists, people who demonstrate against the wars, etc.
I find british law to be more humane than american law. when i was there 15 years ago, drugs for recreational use were all but decriminalized, and cops can't beat the crap out of you or kill you because they feel like it, and most don't even carry guns. a police in wales shook my hand after a traffic stop.
I understand, I just don't agree that trading freedom for a sense of security is worth it, in this country anyway.
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ceebo
Jul 9, 2011, 10:50 PM
Post #177 of 266
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In reply to: I understand, I just don't agree that trading freedom for a sense of security is worth it, in this country anyway.
Like the freedom to choose jump from, or burn in a building?.
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squierbypetzl
Moderator
Jul 9, 2011, 10:58 PM
Post #178 of 266
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After reading just the last 2 pages, I don't plan on reading this thread, so if somebody says this should be moved to the campground (or soapbox??) I'll take their word for it.
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sbaclimber
Jul 9, 2011, 11:03 PM
Post #179 of 266
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ceebo wrote: In reply to: I understand, I just don't agree that trading freedom for a sense of security is worth it, in this country anyway. Like the freedom to choose jump from, or burn in a building?.
Edit: here is an (admittedly rather extreme) example of what can happen in a game of chinese whispers between someone watching an american camera watching "suspects", someone with the authority to give the order to kill, and the guy with the big gun.
http://www.youtube.com/...rLqqQeveT6E&NR=1
I'd be a bit worried about big brother watching me too...
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Jul 9, 2011, 11:22 PM)
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notapplicable
Jul 10, 2011, 12:16 AM
Post #180 of 266
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squierbypetzl wrote: After reading just the last 2 pages, I don't plan on reading this thread, so if somebody says this should be moved to the campground (or soapbox??) I'll take their word for it.
It's borderline. The first 5 pages were mostly on topic but it's gone a bit sideways in the last few. Personally, I say leave it. It will die on it's own in another day or two.
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ceebo
Jul 10, 2011, 2:06 PM
Post #181 of 266
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sbaclimber wrote: ceebo wrote: In reply to: I understand, I just don't agree that trading freedom for a sense of security is worth it, in this country anyway. Like the freedom to choose jump from, or burn in a building?. Like the "lesser of two evils".....yes. Edit: here is an (admittedly rather extreme) example of what can happen in a game of chinese whispers between someone watching an american camera watching "suspects", someone with the authority to give the order to kill, and the guy with the big gun. http://www.youtube.com/...rLqqQeveT6E&NR=1 I'd be a bit worried about big brother watching me too...[image]http://camelsnose.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/hat-tin-foil-smiley.gif?w=780[/image]
Yes that is for sure an extreme example. But imagine how bad things would be if the american army still relied on blanket and napalm bombing.
But in any case, it is common and alarming knowledge that for the most part.. the american army are trigger happy killers. Their like boys with expensive toys, who just want to ''play'' with them. On the other hand, the only reason we know of such cases (including cops beating on people) is because it was recorded. Nobody would take the word of a drug dealer against a cop.. or some Iraqi civilian against the US army.
The 2 major western players are largely responsible for the condition most of the eastern world is in. They have been privately shaping the east for their own benefit for many many years. Especially the British.
I do not believe in terrorism.. but they certainly have more than enough reason.
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ceebo
Jul 10, 2011, 4:53 PM
Post #183 of 266
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sbaclimber wrote: ceebo wrote: I do not believe in terrorism... You make is sound like the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus... 
Oh i would love to believe in the Easter bunny, just as much as i would love to believe that the Iraqi's are terrorist. They would be far easier to deal with.. as opposed to the worlds most powerful government, who happen to actually have ''weapons of mass destruction''..
http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related
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notapplicable
Jul 10, 2011, 5:01 PM
Post #184 of 266
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Nevermind, off to the soapbox with it.
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sbaclimber
Jul 10, 2011, 5:20 PM
Post #185 of 266
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ceebo wrote: sbaclimber wrote: ceebo wrote: I do not believe in terrorism...You make is sound like the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus... ceebo wrote: ...as i would love to believe that the Iraqi's are terrorist.
That is completely different than saying, "I don't believe Iraqi's are terrorists".
I don't care one way or the other what you believe or don't believe, but changing your argument like that is WEEKZZZZ (and very politician-like  )
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ceebo
Jul 10, 2011, 5:30 PM
Post #187 of 266
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sbaclimber wrote: ceebo wrote: sbaclimber wrote: ceebo wrote: I do not believe in terrorism...You make is sound like the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus... ceebo wrote: ...as i would love to believe that the Iraqi's are terrorist.You originally said you "do not believe in terrorism". That is completely different than saying, "I don't believe Iraqi's are terrorists". I don't care one way or the other what you believe or don't believe, but changing your argument like that is WEEKZZZZ (and very politician-like )
Im afraid you missed the point. ALL Iraqi's are seen as terrorists to allot of ignorant people, even those of a complete different race and country have been branded as such. And as i said.. i would rather that false statement to be true, than the ever alarming truth that the US government are....
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sbaclimber
Jul 10, 2011, 6:03 PM
Post #189 of 266
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ceebo wrote: sbaclimber wrote: ceebo wrote: sbaclimber wrote: ceebo wrote: I do not believe in terrorism...You make is sound like the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus... ceebo wrote: ...as i would love to believe that the Iraqi's are terrorist.You originally said you "do not believe in terrorism". That is completely different than saying, "I don't believe Iraqi's are terrorists". I don't care one way or the other what you believe or don't believe, but changing your argument like that is WEEKZZZZ (and very politician-like ) Im afraid you missed the point.
I was simply yanking your chain for your statement:
ceebo wrote: I do not believe in terrorism...
Off to soapbox.........?
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happiegrrrl
Jul 10, 2011, 9:14 PM
Post #190 of 266
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j_ung wrote: notapplicable wrote: Nevermind, off to the soapbox with it. Yeah. Fuck it.
What ever happened to separating the tangent content and leaving original on-topic stuff?
Though I suppose in this thread that would be a bit difficult
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edge
Jul 11, 2011, 12:48 PM
Post #191 of 266
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happiegrrrl wrote: j_ung wrote: notapplicable wrote: Nevermind, off to the soapbox with it. Yeah. Fuck it. What ever happened to separating the tangent content and leaving original on-topic stuff? Though I suppose in this thread that would be a bit difficult
The "split" tool to make a separate thread by moving posts en masse is no longer available to us mods. Believe me, I would have done it pages ago.
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superchuffer
Jul 11, 2011, 2:13 PM
Post #192 of 266
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the only reason this post has survived is from people saying it should be moved.
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JasonsDrivingForce
Jul 12, 2011, 2:53 AM
Post #193 of 266
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The most important thing to remember is that just because Mr. Lyons is behind bars doesn't mean the world is safe. There are other people just like him that will do the same thing if parents are not involved in their children's lives.
There is absolutely no blame for the child. She simply did not understand the ramifications of her actions. Mr. Lyons was completely responsible for everything that happened and he will pay for those actions if he is convicted.
However, it is the parents responsibility to know what their children are doing. If you have a 14 year old daughter it probably isn't a good idea to let them sleep in a gym with a male chaperon or with other male children for that matter. It could have easily been an 18 year old boy that was taking advantage of her.
The point is that if you don't monitor EVERYONE that comes in contact with your young children then things like this might happen.
I feel sorry for the girl and her family. I hope we never hear another story like this again.
I had the unfortunate experience of meeting Mr. Lyons several times as he invaded our regional tournaments. I guess we won't be seeing him at any more competitions, thankfully.
(This post was edited by JasonsDrivingForce on Jul 12, 2011, 4:34 AM)
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ubu
Jul 12, 2011, 11:11 AM
Post #195 of 266
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Well, this is not good. A second arrest at Earth Treks for sex acts between an instructor and a minor. I may not be sending my kids back to their summer camp next year...
http://www.baltimoresun.com/...0711,0,1049820.story
(This post was edited by ubu on Jul 12, 2011, 11:12 AM)
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ceebo
Jul 12, 2011, 11:59 AM
Post #196 of 266
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ubu wrote: Well, this is not good. A second arrest at Earth Treks for sex acts between an instructor and a minor. I may not be sending my kids back to their summer camp next year...
superchuffer wrote: In reply to: I understand, I just don't agree that trading freedom for a sense of security is worth it, in this country anyway. At what point would you begin to agree, after or before it is your child, sister or wife who is raped murdered or molested?. And cmon.. be honest, do you really think you're that free to begin with?. You gave up freedom before you even knew what it was.
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ubu
Jul 12, 2011, 12:05 PM
Post #197 of 266
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ceebo wrote: ubu wrote: Well, this is not good. A second arrest at Earth Treks for sex acts between an instructor and a minor. I may not be sending my kids back to their summer camp next year... superchuffer wrote: In reply to: I understand, I just don't agree that trading freedom for a sense of security is worth it, in this country anyway. At what point would you begin to agree, after or before it is your child, sister or wife who is raped murdered or molested?. And cmon.. be honest, do you really think you're that free to begin with?. You gave up freedom before you even knew what it was.
huh?
(This post was edited by ubu on Jul 12, 2011, 12:10 PM)
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superchuffer
Jul 12, 2011, 1:22 PM
Post #198 of 266
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In reply to: At what point would you begin to agree, after or before it is your child, sister or wife who is raped murdered or molested?. And cmon.. be honest, do you really think you're that free to begin with?. You gave up freedom before you even knew what it was.
prisons are the most monitored places on earth, and rapes happen all the the time. education and awareness is the key, not more 'security'.
and no, i don't think we are free. i am waiting for the predator drones to swoop in on me right now...
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ceebo
Jul 12, 2011, 1:28 PM
Post #199 of 266
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superchuffer wrote: In reply to: At what point would you begin to agree, after or before it is your child, sister or wife who is raped murdered or molested?. And cmon.. be honest, do you really think you're that free to begin with?. You gave up freedom before you even knew what it was. prisons are the most monitored places on earth, and rapes happen all the the time. education and awareness is the key, not more 'security'. and no, i don't think we are free. i am waiting for the predator drones to swoop in on me right now...
Do not compare jails. This is a place where 2 out of 3 people are their for some extreme reason. Can you say 2 out of every 3 people on the street are that evil?, certainly not.. because most of them are in.......
Look, most of what we do is and has been for century's nothing but a reaction to a persons action. We do not make good enough effort to pre empt that action in the first place.. and their are ''usually'' many signs.
Their are so many cases of people going to the police or doctors etc saying they want to kill people. Many of these people are just spat back into society because they ''have not done anything''. It is shocking how many of these people went on to do what they said they were going to do.
(This post was edited by ceebo on Jul 12, 2011, 1:33 PM)
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JasonsDrivingForce
Jul 12, 2011, 1:53 PM
Post #200 of 266
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I would say that qualifies as a problem for Earth Treks. I don't think these events will affect climbing as a sport. They will however affect Earth Treks ability to attract new climbers though.
I can understand it happening once at a gym. However, two separate incidents within a couple of weeks at separate gyms indicates to me that Earth Treks was not able to properly supervise their students or the instructors.
There is a lot of troubling information on the page below.
https://www.earthtreksclimbing.com/...rom-earth-treks.html
(This post was edited by JasonsDrivingForce on Jul 12, 2011, 2:11 PM)
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