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JoeHamilton
Jul 24, 2011, 11:54 PM
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In another thread I mentioned in a MENTAL FACTOR not liking wire gates. Therefore not buying them, "if I don't like there looks in a store how could I trust them 50 feet up ". Maybe my wording of trust wasn't the best choice. It was mentioned that they can be safer. That I had an unfounded fear and paranoia to them . "HOW or WHAT makes them safer or better ?"
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TarHeelEMT
Jul 25, 2011, 12:16 AM
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It depends on context, but...
Reduced gate flutter. Simpler mechanism that is harder to ruin with a freeze or dirt. Stainless steel vs aluminum.
(This post was edited by TarHeelEMT on Jul 25, 2011, 12:22 AM)
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JoeHamilton
Jul 25, 2011, 12:18 AM
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Thanx, that makes sense.
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ablanchard17
Jul 25, 2011, 4:42 AM
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Technically wire gates are safer. to demonstrate this take a solid gate and slap the spine into the palm of your hand. You will most likely hear a definite click.
That click is the sound of the gate opening momentarily.
Try to repeat the same thing with a wire gate.
when a carabiner's gate is open its stregnth is reduced to such a low level that breaking it is a real possibility.
(This post was edited by ablanchard17 on Jul 25, 2011, 4:43 AM)
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herites
Jul 25, 2011, 10:30 AM
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Please link a report where a biner in good condition broke. Not lab tests, real life examples.
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JimTitt
Jul 25, 2011, 11:58 AM
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Thatīs too easy, YOU provide a link to a report which says NO karabiner in good condition has ever broken!
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jakedatc
Jul 25, 2011, 1:38 PM
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BD Neutrino
Major axis closed: 22kn
Major axis open: 7kn
minor axis (crossload): 7kn
36g
BD Nitron bent gate
Major axis closed: 24kn
Major axis open:8kn
Minor axis: 8kn
45g
strength differences are almost nil... gate flutter, ease of clipping, weight savings, ice resistance, etc benefit wire gates.
unless you are using steel locking biners then both wiregates and solid gates are still going to break if they are crossloaded, loaded over an edge or open gate.
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Jul 25, 2011, 1:40 PM)
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rtwilli4
Jul 25, 2011, 1:49 PM
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It all comes down to personal preference. I actually have wire gates on the bolt side of my sport draws and solid gates on the rope end. This is backwards to most people, but I use the WC Heliums for the bolt end because they are the lightest full size biner there is and they have a hood on the nose making them easy to clean. I use DMM Shadow bent gates on the rope end because they are durable I like the way they clip. Gate flutter is real, but I'm obviously not worried too much about it or else I'd be using wires for the rope end of my draws.
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granite_grrl
Jul 25, 2011, 2:49 PM
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1) easier to clip on a sport draw - flat surface to push the rope against vs a rounded one which can lead higher chances to chasing the draw around.
2) generally lighter - doesn't make a difference for sport draws, but nice when you rack all your cams on them and have to carry a shit load of them.
3) more versatile - bent gate are primary made to be put on the clipping end of a quick draw. Wire gates are commonly used at both ends these day, along with anywhere else you might use a solid gates.
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JoeHamilton
Jul 25, 2011, 3:09 PM
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Thanx folks, Good info.
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ChalkIsCheap
Jul 25, 2011, 4:16 PM
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rtwilli4 wrote: It all comes down to personal preference. I actually have wire gates on the bolt side of my sport draws and solid gates on the rope end. This is backwards to most people, but I use the WC Heliums for the bolt end because they are the lightest full size biner there is and they have a hood on the nose making them easy to clean. I use DMM Shadow bent gates on the rope end because they are durable I like the way they clip. Gate flutter is real, but I'm obviously not worried too much about it or else I'd be using wires for the rope end of my draws.
I use the WC Heliums for my gear end as you do but for my rope end I use the WC Nitro's. They take rope very easily, have a sweet gate action and the gate clearance is bigger then most biners out there. Comparably to the Heliums they are half the price and a great way to mix and match draws. It all comes down to personal preference and I Love em.
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bearbreeder
Jul 25, 2011, 4:45 PM
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you need to get over that mental block ... or never climb with partners who use wire gates ...
i can imagine that conversation "hey you seem like a great partner, and sorry i made you drive 2 hours to meet me, but i dont trust wire gates, so i cant climb with you, and since i dont have my own rack ..."
partner "%*#&%*&$%#*%$&#"
wire gates have been used for quite a while ... as have dyneema slings and draws ... and other scary goodies
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JoeHamilton
Jul 25, 2011, 5:03 PM
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Bear breeder,you're rite I should and will,. I brought it up for just that reason, I do have my own rack of draws. And,just might pick up some wire ones . The cleaning aspect and stainless steel vs aluminum makes sense.
(This post was edited by JoeHamilton on Jul 26, 2011, 12:35 AM)
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csproul
Jul 25, 2011, 6:30 PM
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herites wrote: Please link a report where a biner in good condition broke. Not lab tests, real life examples.
(This post was edited by csproul on Jul 25, 2011, 6:32 PM)
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binrat
Jul 25, 2011, 6:49 PM
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I personally don't like wire gates. I saw a new one break years ago and can't find the picture now, I think that was user error. In my books as long as they are in working order, 6 of 1, 1/2 doz of the other.
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rtwilli4
Jul 25, 2011, 9:43 PM
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JoeHamilton wrote: Bear breeder,you're rite I should and will,. I brought it up for just that reason, I don have my own rack of draws. And,just might pick up some wire ones . The cleaning aspect and stainless steel vs aluminum makes sense.
Horrible grammar aside, this post leads me to believe that you are still confused.
Wire gates are not necessarily easier to clean, but Heliums ARE easy to clean because they have a "hooded nose" design, meaning that there is no hook on the nose like a normal wiregate. It is similar to a keylock solid gate biner.
Secondly, all carabiners that you will be using for climbing are aluminum, no matter what kind of gate. Steel biners are sometimes used when the biner is fixed on an anchor for lowering off or on a bolt on an overhanging climb that is very hard to clean. There are other uses as well, but any quickdraw you buy for sport or trad climbing should be made up of aluminum biners.
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JoeHamilton
Jul 26, 2011, 12:06 AM
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TarHeelEMT wrote: It depends on context, but... Reduced gate flutter. Simpler mechanism that is harder to ruin with a freeze or dirt. Stainless steel vs aluminum.
so is the wire gate aluminum?
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jakedatc
Jul 26, 2011, 12:11 AM
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JoeHamilton wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: It depends on context, but... Reduced gate flutter. Simpler mechanism that is harder to ruin with a freeze or dirt. Stainless steel vs aluminum. so is the wire gate aluminum?
the actual gate is steel. the main part is aluminum.. like every other biner that weighs less than 2 pounds.
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JoeHamilton
Jul 26, 2011, 12:14 AM
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I am still confused. What would make a wire gate safer? Why would it be unfounded fear or paranoia that effects my purchase and use ? In the above quote I figured the person implied the GATE itself was made of stainless steal. Again I guess I was wrong. Then I see pictures showing a standard bent gate showing (not by much at all ) more strength then the wire gate. I really am trying to learn something here. Are wire gates safer on a sport climb just because they are lighter and have easier action,thus burning more less strength and stamina ?
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JoeHamilton
Jul 26, 2011, 12:21 AM
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jakedatc wrote:But you have an irrational fear of wire gate carabiners which are in some cases SAFER than solid gate biners. And in most cases now pretty close to the same strength except for the super extra light versions.
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jakedatc
Jul 26, 2011, 12:24 AM
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JoeHamilton wrote: jakedatc wrote:But you have an irrational fear of wire gate carabiners which are in some cases SAFER than solid gate biners. And in most cases now pretty close to the same strength except for the super extra light versions.
They can be safer because they don't ice up in the winter... important for ice climbers.
they have less gate flutter like we tried to explain to you earlier. If a wire gate biner hits a rock the gate has less mass so it will be less likely to open. again.. hit a solid gate on your hand and see the gate open.. then try it with a wire gate. it is a lot harder to make a wire gate open
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jakedatc
Jul 26, 2011, 12:27 AM
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and your fear is irrational because you have no idea why you are afraid of them.
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JoeHamilton
Jul 26, 2011, 12:29 AM
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that part made sense. Thanx again
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