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binrat
Aug 10, 2011, 12:39 AM
Post #51 of 66
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Kartessa wrote: ChalkIsCheap wrote: Kartessa wrote: Where was this anyway? It was at Metcalfe, I was trying to find some easy routes for Tanya to lead but they all had top ropes so we ended up doing Slabbus instead. Later on that day we saw a group of four people, two were running up climbs and setting up topropes for the other two to climb. I wanted tanya to get some easy leading rather then just top rope all the climbs. Metcalfe... the source of all my rope-cutting ragez! 
(This post was edited by binrat on Aug 10, 2011, 12:44 AM)
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binrat
Aug 10, 2011, 12:47 AM
Post #52 of 66
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billcoe_ wrote: Kartessa wrote: You pull the rope down, coil it nicely and attach a note saying "Next time I see this laying around, I'll cut it" Then they come back from that emergency trip to the hospital and see you have cut their rope while they were trying to save a life caused by some accident. Nice.
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clee03m
Aug 12, 2011, 9:03 PM
Post #53 of 66
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binrat wrote: Highly doubt it. They set up at 8:00 am for clients at 1:00 pm and then go home for the morning. And they don't play well with others as well.
People really do this? If I knew this is what is going on, I would pull the rope and probably clean their top rope gear after I climb. That is just really rude.
Usually I encounter a sea of top ropers hogging some climbs. I usually ask nicely if I can lead (around the rope or pull it and put it back up depending on how badly rope interferes with the climb). If they say no, I throw a shit fit, and so far, that seems to do the trick.
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caughtinside
Aug 12, 2011, 9:22 PM
Post #54 of 66
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Rmsyll2 wrote: I've seen cases of a small group hanging all the routes they might want to work on, and then cheerfully offer use of an idle rope to anyone who pressed the matter, as if that made it okay. But who will trust an unkown rope and anchor rigging? What will possibly be part of new rules for particularly groups where I climb is a policy of declaring un-occupied ropes to be booty for anyone who wants it, and litter with a fine for that. .
Rules? Take your rules, roll them up real tight, then shove them up your ass. We don't need no stinking rules.
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JakeG
Sep 29, 2011, 8:14 PM
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I have a counter question. I'm a new climber, trying to get some outdoor experience this year until I'm ready to start leading, which I hope will be soon. In Ontario, the toprope-hanging-there-with-no-one-in-sight is quite common, and really really annoying. But I recently was flummoxed by this: on a weekday, when there was only one other group out besides mine, I wanted to set a toprope on a route that someone had just led (trad). I was at the top of the crag looking for the top of the route, when my partner yelled up to me that the other party had just said that they were going off to climb someplace else and were finished with the route in question. I thought that they had cleaned their anchors and walked back down - but apparently, they just lowered off and left their anchor in place, as I discovered when I reached the intended spot. I searched up and down the crag for the other party, but couldn't find them. I went back to the route I wanted, and their gear was still there. What should I have done? a) removed their anchors; b) used their anchors, which I could see were set well, for my rope; or c) accepted the discourtesy and gone to find a different route?
I'm aware of the ire that many newbies and topropers arouse, and as someone who topropes only because I don't yet know how to do anything else, I want not to commit any of these offenses out of ignorance. But Ontario topropers don't seem to have a monopoly on rudeness!
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csproul
Sep 29, 2011, 9:12 PM
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JakeG wrote: I have a counter question. I'm a new climber, trying to get some outdoor experience this year until I'm ready to start leading, which I hope will be soon. In Ontario, the toprope-hanging-there-with-no-one-in-sight is quite common, and really really annoying. But I recently was flummoxed by this: on a weekday, when there was only one other group out besides mine, I wanted to set a toprope on a route that someone had just led (trad). I was at the top of the crag looking for the top of the route, when my partner yelled up to me that the other party had just said that they were going off to climb someplace else and were finished with the route in question. I thought that they had cleaned their anchors and walked back down - but apparently, they just lowered off and left their anchor in place, as I discovered when I reached the intended spot. I searched up and down the crag for the other party, but couldn't find them. I went back to the route I wanted, and their gear was still there. What should I have done? a) removed their anchors; b) used their anchors, which I could see were set well, for my rope; or c) accepted the discourtesy and gone to find a different route? I'm aware of the ire that many newbies and topropers arouse, and as someone who topropes only because I don't yet know how to do anything else, I want not to commit any of these offenses out of ignorance. But Ontario topropers don't seem to have a monopoly on rudeness!
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marc801
Sep 29, 2011, 9:23 PM
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csproul wrote: They probably did not leave their anchor there on purpose, but forgot that the gear was there and went off to climb elsewhere.
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ceebo
Sep 29, 2011, 10:07 PM
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Common courtesy would suggest you do not hog lines. It would also suggest you do not tamper with another climbers gear.
Logic would suggest common courtesy is not so common at all. Sabotage however, could be considered common.. if only they had the brains to blame it on a curious bear  .
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JakeG
Sep 30, 2011, 12:18 AM
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Right! That was the dliemma. I didn't want to touch their stuff, but they knew we were waiting, and told one of us at the bottom of the cliff that they were leaving. One of our party even thought that they (someone he kind of knows) had left the gear there for us to use as an anchor.
So, I used it (let the lambasting begin). Then, as I was belaying someone who was 2/3 of the way up the climb, I saw from the base that someone had approached the anchor from the top. I shouted up, and he shouted down, "I want to take my anchor now." I wasn't sure whether or not he knew someone was on the rope, because you can't really see over the edge. Scared the bejeesus out of me. I lowered the guy on the face, then went up and reset the anchor using my own stuff.
What did I learn? I'm still confused, but I sure won't use someone else's gear again. I guess it would have been better to have someone pissed off at me than to risk having someone pull gear from the top of my rope! It sure would be nice if there were some standard "rules" that new people like me could refer to.
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shockabuku
Sep 30, 2011, 1:00 AM
Post #60 of 66
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If it's really not in the way, climb on.
If it's in the way, pull it and replace.
Or run off with their rope - probably not.
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mattmaxwell
Sep 30, 2011, 8:09 AM
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Set it up and then leave?
Had a group do that to us. 4 of us were working our way along a wall, leading and cleaning each route, warming up in the morning. Some people come up, ask us our intentions. We tell them what we're doing, moving to the routes on the right. They go ahead and jump on the route 3 over from us, lead it, and then leave their top rope. We finished our route, then did the next two. The group still hadn't returned. We, being somewhat nice/ethical, lead through their rope. After over two hours, the group hadn't returned. So I was rapelling down, I pulled their rope halfway up the route and tied it off.
(This post was edited by mattmaxwell on Sep 30, 2011, 8:11 AM)
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markc
Sep 30, 2011, 1:21 PM
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ceebo wrote: Common courtesy would suggest you do not hog lines. It would also suggest you do not tamper with another climbers gear.
I agree that you shouldn't tamper with someone's gear. A point where we may differ is that I don't necessarily view breaking down an anchor someone left as tampering, especially if it's clear they moved on with most of their stuff. In JakeG's case, I would have cleaned the anchor and kept it in an obvious spot where the other party would see it.
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markc
Sep 30, 2011, 3:13 PM
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JakeG wrote: Right! That was the dliemma. I didn't want to touch their stuff, but they knew we were waiting, and told one of us at the bottom of the cliff that they were leaving. One of our party even thought that they (someone he kind of knows) had left the gear there for us to use as an anchor. So, I used it (let the lambasting begin). Then, as I was belaying someone who was 2/3 of the way up the climb, I saw from the base that someone had approached the anchor from the top. I shouted up, and he shouted down, "I want to take my anchor now." I wasn't sure whether or not he knew someone was on the rope, because you can't really see over the edge. Scared the bejeesus out of me. I lowered the guy on the face, then went up and reset the anchor using my own stuff. What did I learn? I'm still confused, but I sure won't use someone else's gear again. I guess it would have been better to have someone pissed off at me than to risk having someone pull gear from the top of my rope! It sure would be nice if there were some standard "rules" that new people like me could refer to.
No lambasting, but I definitely wouldn't use someone's gear without their knowledge and consent. You would have been better off cleaning his gear and leaving it out of the way. If there were ample placement options, you may have been able to construct your anchor without even needing to clean the other one. (I would have cleaned it regardless, but I understand why someone might choose not to.)
You definitely held the guy up, which is a small issue. Imagine how you'd feel if you locked your bike to a bike rack, only to come back and see someone had run their lock through your frame? It's a different situation, and you shouldn't need to pull or work around his anchor, but it's still unnecessarily holding up someone else.
The bigger issue is what you've already highlighted. What if you didn't hear the guy approaching from the top, and he started breaking down parts of the anchor before pulling up the cordalette/quad/whatever?
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JakeG
Sep 30, 2011, 9:35 PM
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Thanks, Mark - helpful reply. In my own defense, though, I should point out that he also held me up - for a lot longer than I held him up, since I spent half an hour looking for him and another 15 minutes staring at his anchor, trying to decide what to do. But the important thing is that I've learned not to do that again! Next time I encounter a more ambiguous situation, though - when I don't know whether or not the other party has moved on - I still won't know what's best. But I gather from this thread that I'm not the only one.
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j_ung
Sep 30, 2011, 10:57 PM
Post #65 of 66
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ceebo wrote: Common courtesy would suggest you do not hog lines. It would also suggest you do not tamper with another climbers gear. Logic would suggest common courtesy is not so common at all. Sabotage however, could be considered common.. if only they had the brains to blame it on a curious bear .
The original party said they were done, and they were nowhere to be found. I would have assumed they forgot their gear, cleaned it and replaced it with my own. And at least in this case, I would have been correct to do so. Probably would have even gotten a thank you.
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clee03m
Oct 1, 2011, 4:42 PM
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j_ung wrote: The original party said they were done, and they were nowhere to be found. I would have assumed they forgot their gear, cleaned it and replaced it with my own. And at least in this case, I would have been correct to do so. Probably would have even gotten a thank you.
I agree with this. I would not have left the gear and worked around it, even with ample gear placements, because I would not feel comfortable having anyone cleaning their gear at the top of a climb while one of us is climbing the route.
To the dude with this question, if you know how to place gear and set up an anchor, what is stopping you from leading?
(This post was edited by clee03m on Oct 1, 2011, 4:43 PM)
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