My dick is bigger than yours.

You have a dick?
[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/8/445918-largest_IMG00049-20100321-1203.jpg[/image]

Now I know I'm in the Twilight Zone.

Oh, maybe you DO have a dick.
[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/5/457285-largest_Dina_with_Tank.jpg[/image]

Well I certainly wasn't confusing you for a mature human being.

The thing about assholes is that they really don't need an excuse.

Ewww, he's creeping on photos now.

He got excited by the pearl necklace

extensive experience and broad expertise

And to leave the "necessary" aggression and insults (which are uncontrolled outflows of the immature ego, like verbal diarrhea).

Her remark bout her dick does scare me a little though.

You have a dick?


Now I know I'm in the Twilight Zone.

Oh, maybe you DO have a dick.

so the answer is

20 meters!

your "im with the rescue! I'm old! I never took a lead fall! I never climb anything longer than 6 pitches! Thus i know everything!" approach is not helping anyone.

With your nickname, profile pic and signature, you give the impression of a professional.

Good answer. I had been intending to mention that rapping down often requires climbing up no more than half of the total rope length carried. But I got distracted by all the unnecessary challenges to my knowledge and expertise by people who reveal little or nothing about their own.

I've never claimed to "know everything". And I never mentioned my experience until my knowledge was challenged.

Since this is a beginners forum, and posters have no basis to discern the relative value of information and opinions shared here, it was my responsibility to give them a basis for comparison - in spite of the continual onslaught of unwarranted attacks on my credibility by largely anonymous people.

I don't "give the impression", I state is as fact. I was a professional outdoor educator, wilderness guide and rock climbing instructor. I was a professional private rock-climbing guide. I have been a professional rigging and rescue instructor, in above-ground and below-ground, rock, water, ice and industrial settings. And I am a professional educator.

As Walter Brennan often said in the Guns of Will Sonnet (1967), "No brag, just fact".

I suspect that some here have more extensive and more varied climbing experience than do I, though it's largely impossible to know that since, as you suggest, many people see the internet as a place to create an alter ego - an avatar - to pretend that they're someone they're not.

I'm not interested in make-believe and never learned to play that game. As one who programmed mainframe computers in 1968 and lived through the history of the internet and WWW, I knew it as a place for sharing reliable information - it's original purpose.

It's a shame that it has so degenerated into a space for fantasy games, virtual social networking (the antithesis of real community), spying, hacking, stalking and encouraging the worst of human behavior (because of its anonymity).

The personal attacks here against anyone expressing a perspective or opinion which challenges those of others, is emblematic of the worst that the internet has to offer.

Like so many "discussion forums", this site could be a valuable place if people behaved as they would in a public setting, where they had to literally stand by their words. But, given the degenerate state of humanity in general and the additional license which an anonymous cyberspace allows - authentic conversation is something "devoutly to be wish'd".

I'm still waiting for you to share your personal history and the source of your alleged expertise (aside from a claimed PhD in "science").

I put forward exactly who I am. You hide behind anonymity so you can be an asshole to your heart's content with no repercussions.

So who is "chickenshit"?

As someone who uses his real name and has a fairly honest profile

If you have climbed for 20 years and have never climbed past your limit on lead, your experience is pretty shallow.

I'm glad you conditioned that statement with "fairly".

Occupation: Professional Climber.

What, pray tell, is a "professional climber" other than some kind of braggart. And why are there no real pictures of you on your profile page?

And I have to wonder just how old (or, rather, young) you are.

Quite the contrary. An impetuous adolescent (or an adolescent adult) strives to discover his limits by constantly pushing at them - if he's lucky, he survives the experience. (The fact that teens and young adults have the highest rate of vehicle accidents is testimony to this.)

A wise man knows and respects his limits and discovers infinite possibility within that boundary - and he lives to pass on his wisdom to those few youth who have ears to hear.

Good answer.

What's so good about it? 60 divided by 2 is 30.

Jay

...should not climb longer stuff than half the rope length, with a good safety margin for wandering routes and such.

The professional climber thing is a joke. I am a mediocre climber

And I have to wonder just how old (or, rather, young) you are.

teens and young adults are also the worst drivers because they have been doing it for less time. The analogy is false however because when you push past your limits in climbing you survive and become a better climber. Pushing past your limits while driving is entirely different.

There are only so many moderate trad routes in the world, hardly a case of infinite possibilities.

Good answer. I had been intending to mention that rapping down often requires climbing up no more than half of the total rope length carried. But I got distracted by all the unnecessary challenges to my knowledge and expertise by people who reveal little or nothing about their own.

I guess you don't use any of that 60m or rope to tie in at each end and the belayer is hugging the rock, and you're content to run out the entire rope and set up a belay station at that point regardless of whether there's any anchorage.

The obvious answer is you climb until you get close to the amount of available rope (hopefully, your belayer is letting you know how much is left), and stop where a good 3-point belay anchor can be built.

That's simul-climbing (often caused by poor planning), but I don't think it's what the OP was asking about.

I've never claimed to "know everything". And I never mentioned my experience until my knowledge was challenged.

Since this is a beginners forum, and posters have no basis to discern the relative value of information and opinions shared here, it was my responsibility to give them a basis for comparison - in spite of the continual onslaught of unwarranted attacks on my credibility by largely anonymous people.

I don't "give the impression", I state is as fact. I was a professional outdoor educator, wilderness guide and rock climbing instructor. I was a professional private rock-climbing guide. I have been a professional rigging and rescue instructor, in above-ground and below-ground, rock, water, ice and industrial settings. And I am a professional educator.

As Walter Brennan often said in the Guns of Will Sonnet (1967), "No brag, just fact".

I suspect that some here have more extensive and more varied climbing experience than do I, though it's largely impossible to know that since, as you suggest, many people see the internet as a place to create an alter ego - an avatar - to pretend that they're someone they're not.

I'm not interested in make-believe and never learned to play that game. As one who programmed mainframe computers in 1968 and lived through the history of the internet and WWW, I knew it as a place for sharing reliable information - it's original purpose.

It's a shame that it has so degenerated into a space for fantasy games, virtual social networking (the antithesis of real community), spying, hacking, stalking and encouraging the worst of human behavior (because of its anonymity).

The personal attacks here against anyone expressing a perspective or opinion which challenges those of others, is emblematic of the worst that the internet has to offer.

Like so many "discussion forums", this site could be a valuable place if people behaved as they would in a public setting, where they had to literally stand by their words. But, given the degenerate state of humanity in general and the additional license which an anonymous cyberspace allows - authentic conversation is something "devoutly to be wish'd".

What's so good about it? 60 divided by 2 is 30.

Jay

Good answer. I had been intending to mention that rapping down often requires climbing up no more than half of the total rope length carried. But I got distracted by all the unnecessary challenges to my knowledge and expertise by people who reveal little or nothing about their own.

I've never claimed to "know everything". And I never mentioned my experience until my knowledge was challenged.

Since this is a beginners forum, and posters have no basis to discern the relative value of information and opinions shared here, it was my responsibility to give them a basis for comparison - in spite of the continual onslaught of unwarranted attacks on my credibility by largely anonymous people.

I don't "give the impression", I state is as fact. I was a professional outdoor educator, wilderness guide and rock climbing instructor. I was a professional private rock-climbing guide. I have been a professional rigging and rescue instructor, in above-ground and below-ground, rock, water, ice and industrial settings. And I am a professional educator.

As Walter Brennan often said in the Guns of Will Sonnet (1967), "No brag, just fact".

I suspect that some here have more extensive and more varied climbing experience than do I, though it's largely impossible to know that since, as you suggest, many people see the internet as a place to create an alter ego - an avatar - to pretend that they're someone they're not.

I'm not interested in make-believe and never learned to play that game. As one who programmed mainframe computers in 1968 and lived through the history of the internet and WWW, I knew it as a place for sharing reliable information - it's original purpose.

It's a shame that it has so degenerated into a space for fantasy games, virtual social networking (the antithesis of real community), spying, hacking, stalking and encouraging the worst of human behavior (because of its anonymity).

The personal attacks here against anyone expressing a perspective or opinion which challenges those of others, is emblematic of the worst that the internet has to offer.

Like so many "discussion forums", this site could be a valuable place if people behaved as they would in a public setting, where they had to literally stand by their words. But, given the degenerate state of humanity in general and the additional license which an anonymous cyberspace allows - authentic conversation is something "devoutly to be wish'd".

Trad: 5.11a
Sport:5.12c
Boulder:V7
Ice:WI4
Aid:A6

So the rest of your profile is also only "fairly honest" - in other words, totally false?

And I have to wonder just how old (or, rather, young) you are.

Not at all. When I got my license at 16, I had three crashes in the first three months - and learned from each. I also spend considerable time at the wheel pushing my limits - doing donuts in the parking lot and deliberately going into tailspins on snowy roads - and have become a far better and more skilled driver because I survived what should have killed me.

In driving, a crash is a failure, even though with modern shoulder belts and air bags one is likely to survive. No experienced race car driver brags about their crashes - only about the races they completed without accident.

Regardless of what some adolescent adults on this forum claim, the goal of traditional climbing has always been to complete a route without falling. The rope and gear is nothing more than an insurance policy that one hopes to never need.

The fact that modern "insurance" is better - dynamic nylon ropes vs sisal and hemp, e.g. - doesn't alter the essential nature of traditional climbing any more than better passenger restraints in cars makes crashing an OK experience.

Failures are excellent learning experiences - if we survive them intact - but they should never be a goal. The goal of any master is to ply their craft without failure.

The imagination of youth is limited to shear volume and intensity of experience and ignores the unlimited variety and nuance of experience, which is the realm of the master.

One can climb the same route a thousand times and have a completely different experience with each ascent, particularly if the climber is focused less on conquering the route and more on experiencing it with every sense and every part of one's being.

In fact, climbing (like anything in life) can be a spiritual experience. Someday, you might realize that.