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timpanogos
Jan 5, 2003, 7:39 AM
Post #1 of 9
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Registered: May 17, 2002
Posts: 935
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Hey all you Russian Aider owners – Please comment on my following experiences/observations of the day (realizing that I have only been on Wall Ladders twice before today, and I have not found any information on the “proper use” if there is such a thing on the ruskies):
1. I spent much more time on the wall on my knees or feet (hanging on the daisies – in a very comfy repelling type of position) than I did “hooked up”. Damn, I cannot believe it; I need more gear (knee pads). In the ladders this definitely was not the case – where the large majority of the time was spent standing in the ladders (fighting constantly to, as someone said – “learn the toe flick technique” getting into those second steps).
2. The bottom two, non-paired rings seemed well placed for bounce testing after I had attached the daisy and started initial load testing by synching it up. While in the rappel like position, I could reach the ring strap and put one of these two lower rings onto the hook. Now I did not do aggressive bounce testing, as this crack has bomber nut placements – but I assume if you were going to do aggressive bounce testing – you would connect to the ring with a biner instead of the hook. I started out by leaving keyless biners on the knee loops, but I took them off after several moves because they got in the way a bit when hooking up.
3. I would then basically pull myself up on the daisy as far as it would go, while walking my feet up the wall, outright climbing it where possible (you are not hooked up on anything at this point). This would put my knees about the level of the 3rd set of paired rings from the top. In the ladders, it seemed that the name of the game was – “move up a step, then another, …” – but in the ruskies – the game seems to be, how far do I want to hook up this time? Do you want door number 1, 2 or 3 (woops I mean ring). If a high reach is not mandatory, this decision will have nothing to do with high stepping fear factor (explained below).
4. So you make your choice, and drop from rappel position to your knees. This seemed like the only way to get your knee next to the rings (I was on less than vertical).
5. Reach down and unclip your lower daisy, extend it all the way and clip it to your rack – you are not going to need it for awhile (unless it is going to take you lots of time to make your next placement).
6. Make your lower lead clip, and check your grigri and backup.
7. Lets say you have chosen to get right on up there – you bring your knee right tight up into your chest, and with your hand, guide that topmost ring onto the hook – let out a big grunt, and press it out, pulling up on hand holds when they exist. The hands are not needed to help with keeping your balance from falling over backwards, but to help that poor leg out – I can hardly move tonight. You can really fly up the wall by top ringing it every time – but it toasted my legs. It was obvious from the moment I loaded the first hook with my full body weight that I was working a whole new set of muscle groups!
8. After pressing up and getting full extension on one leg place your next piece. Most of the time, I simply flagged my unhooked leg/foot on the wall. There really is no fear in this at all (but your loaded calf muscle will be pumping big time). If you need more time to place than your calf will hold out, go ahead and hook up your second ruskie on the loaded pro and hook up your second leg. Just like in the ladders, if you put your heels together and angle your toes out, it gives a stable position that will give your screaming calf some relief.
9. After amazing yourself with several of these single legged incredibly high step, full arms reach placements – you will have a four alarm fire alert going off in your quads (from the knee in chest to full extension presses) – from here on you tend to pick door number 1, which is more like standing up out of a chair, and making what appeared to be normal ladder – 3rd step placements.
Conclusions from today’s ruskie practice:
1. knee pads are a must (If Russ is reading this, a built in knee pad, would be the ticket, as has been suggested elsewhere).
2. I’m going to check into having our local climbing shoe resoler do something with the toes of my nice boots – which seemed to take a lot of abuse. I did not have boots on in the aiders but I assume the ruskies are even harder on boot tips than aiders.
3. I strongly discourage anyone new to aid, to use ruskies on your first time out. It just would not be fair!!! You too need to experience the fear and trepidation of making that decision to move to the second step.
4. I can see that moving from aid to free and back on the ruskies will be a breeze. On my first ladder experience, I bailed ½ way up a bolt ladder because of missing bolt. To bail, I actually got out of the aiders and did a traversal to the side. It occurred to me today, that the feeling I had getting out of the aiders and onto the wall (as well as moving to the 2nd step) was like the moment you actually let go and load a scary rappel. Once you are on rap (or synched down in those second steps) – you get that relieved – life is good – I’m still here feeling. On the ruskies, I just had that – on loaded, feet shoulders width apart, stable rap position feeling. And after hooking up and getting ready to stand – just had that – on belay – moving from hang-dogging rest position to, ok I’m back on the wall free climbing feeling.
5. I need to find a totally over vertical practice route and see how they work. Does anybody know of a local SLC/Provo route that is aidable and oververtical?
6.
7. Bottom line conclusion – even by gumby standards, ruskies RULE!
Chad
After thoughts:
In steps 7 and 8, I'm not sure why I did not just hook both knees into the single strap (duh - paired rings right) when I wanted more time to place pro. I was just doing what seemed natural, and on the less than vertical, the flagged leg was very natural – plus it’s so fast (on these easy placements) that I pressed up, placed, clipped and synched the daisy and back on rappel (as it were). Obviously you are not going to toast your legs as fast if you hook both knees hooked before pressing up, instead of flagging the foot.
Can’t wait to try that knee’s locked together feeling next time (which just seems unnatural). I can see this will be mandatory on overhanging – and I assume you will be doing more of a “stepping up” the rings on a single aider in this case.
But for less than vertical – I was basically climbing at a trad rate, only dropping 3 times the pro (I measured – full 52” between placements if top-ringing it to a nut, about 46" if to a cam).
[ This Message was edited by: timpanogos on 2003-01-06 06:43 ]
Changed Title
[ This Message was edited by: timpanogos on 2003-01-07 09:20 ]
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epic_ed
Jan 5, 2003, 9:39 PM
Post #2 of 9
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Registered: Jun 17, 2002
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Dude, thanks for the first hand account. BTW -- how the F did you get a pair?!?!?! I know most users who have reported back on their experience got some proto-types from Russ. Did you find a set of the Trango's?
Ed
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timpanogos
Jan 6, 2003, 4:55 AM
Post #3 of 9
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Registered: May 17, 2002
Posts: 935
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Ed,
I got them from Russ - I hope he is busily making up the new and improved version. The pair I got was half and half - the knee/hook part had a Trango label on it, the ring part had a fish label on it.
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timpanogos
Jan 12, 2003, 4:27 AM
Post #4 of 9
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Registered: May 17, 2002
Posts: 935
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I was out practicing hauling today and got a chance to jug with the Russians - Sweet!
1. Locker one ring strap to your ascender.
2. Stayed hooked up normally with your adjustable daisy off the ring strap (backup on upper jug).
3. If overhung - hook both legs up in the 2nd or 3rd set of paired rings. Otherwise only need one leg.
If you have a croll, you are loving life.
The 3rd set of rings was perfect for me for a fast but not overly ambitious (strenuous). If you want to boogie, clip up in those second paired rings.
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passthepitonspete
Jan 12, 2003, 7:19 PM
Post #5 of 9
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Registered: Oct 10, 2001
Posts: 2183
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[HINT] Open two windows so you can read along side by side.
1. Knee pads are STANDARD EQUIPMENT when aiding! You would be nuts not to have a pair. Equip yourself thusly.
You will find that you stand most in the third steps of your aid ladders, and you will spend most of your time in this same relative position in the Russkies.
2. If Russ Walling is reading this, I believe these cords should be a foot longer to allow bounce testing from a foot lower.
I bounce test frequently without bothering to clip the aiders into the piece with a carabiner. This is probably because I did two walls without realizing this was possible!
I mean, if you really scared, and hence bounce testin' the livin' bejeepers out of your piece, THEN you might bother to clip in with a crab. And yes, you don't want to leave the crab in situ. [Only]Big Wall Crabs shoud be left in situ.]
3. With practice, you will learn to climb the aiders and will be able to quickly and easily put the hook into the ring. This is not as easy as you might think and requires LOTS of practising!
The step you stand in is frequently a matter of how strenuous the placement is, and what kind of piece you expect to place next.
If you see that you can slam in a cam up high, you'll probably hop right into your second steps and just go for it. But if you have to place a head, you might get out your head kit while in your fourth steps, move up to the third and see, then only when ready get into your second steps.
Note: With regular aiders, you will be placing gear from the third step most of the time. You will have to learn the Better Way of topstepping. It's hard work getting into your second steps of aid ladders.
With the Russkies, it is a piece of piss! You can get into your second steps routinely! It is absolutely amazing and easy! It's like you're given an extra foot of reach with each and every placement!
This is WHY I maintain my bold prediction that Russian Aiders will become the recognized Better Way within five years. They're just too damn good not to.
4. Practise stepping up.
5. I clip mine to the front subrack of my lead rack. I clip it in the same place every time [hopefully!]. It's a different colour and recognizable at a glance.
6. There is no rule 6.
7. Pussy. [Since I usually climb right off the couch, I am familiar with First Day Pain] Lean out away from the rock as you lift your knee. I prefer shorter steps than one big one. With practice, you might too. But it would be tempting to skip steps until you can do it without really looking.
8. Wanker. Get both feet into the rings. Flagging is bogus. PRACTISE getting the hooks into the rings!
Note: I guess you could take this shortcut if you can make an immediate placement. It's been a long time since I've done much A1, but my recollection is that *I* would still put both feet in, because I can do so quickly and easily, making the climbing much easier and less strenous.
You have not talked at all about adjusting your fifi. This is CRITICAL when climbing.
What you will find with your fifi is that in traditional aiders, you will cinch it right up tight to zero.
But with the Russkies, you will usally leave a foot of slack in anticipation of climbing into your second rings.
Cool, eh?
9. That is just waaaaay too much work, dude.
This is, after all, a holiday.
I concur with conclusions.
Hmmm, now that I have reached the bottom of your post, I can see that you are doing your problem solving on the go. This is important if you are to suceed in climbing big walls. You must take a very analytical approach to what you are doing, understand it, diagnose your errors, and then correct them. For the most part, you figured out what you were doing wrong.
If you are not a good problem solver, you probably don't belong on a big wall!
As for your jugging comments, about all I can say is "duh".
When I was climbing Excalibur with Tom, my one jug [and designated sling] mysteriously vanished one night. [Funny how that happens sometimes, eh?] So I had to finish jugging in the Russkies.
Little did I know I could have clipped in with a crab, instead of having to keep the hooks in place!
Sheesh.
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timpanogos
Jan 13, 2003, 12:11 AM
Post #6 of 9
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Registered: May 17, 2002
Posts: 935
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I'll have to try the fifi - however, on the c2 route that I was doing, it did not feel like I needed it - and it seems you would only need it if it helps relieve some pressure on your calves. And Im not talking 2nd steps here I was hitting the topmost first rings and I did not have the feeling of toppling over backwards.
Another thing that I did not mention about the Russians, it appears that even when you are in the top-most ring the angle from your knee hook to your protection maintained a very nice downward prominence verses more of a pulling outward or upward. All of the pressure is pulling just a bit outward and downward off your knee and camming your toes into the wall a very solid triangle of pressure/strength, which does not tend to shift or move once loaded.
You can lean your body back as far as you want, and it does not affect this triangle. I believe the time I peeled on the cam hook on the ladders was because I leaned outward just a bit too much on the daisy as I was stepping up. I wonder if synching up a fifi to your waist would tend to destabilize this triangle giving more of an outward pull on your loaded pro?
Chad
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alpinerocket
Jan 13, 2003, 1:04 AM
Post #7 of 9
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Registered: Aug 13, 2001
Posts: 496
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Chad it looks like you are learning the art of Aid very well. Unfourtuantly (sp?) I have only been on ice or alpine so far this winter and have not been on a single aid wall. Lets get together some time in Feb or early March to hone in our technic for Zion. John
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johnhenry
Jan 13, 2003, 2:31 AM
Post #8 of 9
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Registered: Feb 28, 2002
Posts: 202
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What, no word on the "super hero topstep"???
That is stepping out of the aid-triers and directly onto the piece. Aliens and similar wire-loop cams are the bomb for this. Going to have to flag for this one though.
Also, I rig my adjustable daisies and aid-triers just like I would a conventional set up i.e. aid-triers on the lead beaner with locking carabiner from adj. daisy also clipped through the same loop of the aider.
Is this how everyone else is rigging theirs???
Adios, John
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timpanogos
Jan 13, 2003, 4:12 AM
Post #9 of 9
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Registered: May 17, 2002
Posts: 935
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This is another one that Russ could improve on - make the biner loop at the top of the ring aider a little larger to better accomadate a locking biner to the adj. as well as the lead binner.
I've been placing the lead binner, as well as the adjustable locking biner in the ring tier, but the adj. daisy is not hooked with the lead biner - the loops are just too tight and bind. Thus, the Adj. is the locking biners distance below the lead.
I'll have to try hooking the piece - hey, it's basically only the lead biners distance from that top ring
Chad
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