I am assuming you are implying people use the Yosemite Finish to make the knot easier to untie? Well if so, tucking the last strand through the bottom of the figure eight does not make it easier to untie, at least not in any fashion I have ever seen it tied in. In fact it does the exact opposite, if you take a whipper on a figure eight with the tail threaded through the bottom, it becomes harder to untie. The finishing knot gets pinched in the figure eight and its hard to pull the slack end back through the knot. Most people that thread the slack end of the rope do it so it stays out of the way when they go to clip. Thats the main reason why I use it.

I am assuming you are implying people use the Yosemite Finish to make the knot easier to untie? If so, I am not aware of anyway to tie it to make the figure eight easier to untie. It does the opposite, it makes it harder to untie because the finish gets pinched between the bottom two strands in the figure eight and its a complete B to pull through after a whipper.

Is there a single climbing related concept or technique that you have even the faintest understanding of? One would think that after 2000+ falls you would at least know something about untying a cinched knot.

This has been a useful thread for me as I’ve used the figure-8 to tie into my harness for many years and have never thought about the Yosemite finish reducing its stability (Thanks USN for bringing up the subject; thanks JT for a good tip on making a loaded 8 easier to untie).

However, there is also a danger with using the barrel knot (1/2 of a double fisherman) to dress the figure-8. With both the end of the rope and the main part of the rope going in the same direction, it’s possible to inadvertently clip into the end part of the rope rather than the main strand of the rope. I know since I’ve done this. (No need for posting saying this was “user error”, since that’s obvious to anyone reading this.) When I was shown the Yosemite finish, I thought it’s a neat way to clean up the knot and eliminate the possibility of misclipping.

The only data given explicitly in this thread or even referenced comes from one paragraph in the reference [http://www.bergundsteigen.at/...krautundruabn%29.pdf] wherein it states (my translation): “On the basis of strength tests done by Mammut, the strength of the ring loaded knot [the Yosemite finish Figure 3] is about 160 kg. If you attach yourself to the anchor with a Munter hitch or a PAS, there is no decrease in the ring strength of the knot.” I’ve gone to the Mammut site and the Petzl site as well as a Google search and I’ve found a lot discussion but no explicit test data.

The only conclusion I’ve come to pending more actual data is this: Don’t use the loop of the knot for attaching yourself to anything. Use the belay loop that comes with the harness. And until more data is available, I would apply this advice to the bowline (which I stopped using years ago—the litany of people dying from a loosened bowline has been going on for years).

Even though I have no intention of using the rope loop for attaching, it would be interesting to see actual data comparing the ring strength of dressed and undressed figure-8 knots and of various bowline configurations.

Cheers,
Rob.calm

However, there is also a danger with using the barrel knot (1/2 of a double fisherman) to dress the figure-8. With both the end of the rope and the main part of the rope going in the same direction, it’s possible to inadvertently clip into the end part of the rope rather than the main strand of the rope. I know since I’ve done this. (No need for posting saying this was “user error”, since that’s obvious to anyone reading this.) When I was shown the Yosemite finish, I thought it’s a neat way to clean up the knot and eliminate the possibility of misclipping.

you got the second (and important) part of the translation wrong:
From the pdf:
If you clip the munter (for belaying) or your PAS into the rope ring, the ring-strengh of the knot is by far not
strong enough (not adequate).

"... Wird die Halbmastwurfsicherung oder die Selbstsicherung (zB Nabelschnur) in den Seilring eingehängt, reicht die Ringfestigkeit des Knotens bei Weitem nicht aus."

the BMC recommends using the tie in knot for belaying in certain situations

pg 21

http://www.thebmc.co.uk/bmcNews/media/u_content/File/safety_skills/publications/climbing_outside_booklet.pdf

also

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1129

When you tuck the end through, don't pull it tight. Leave a little bit of slack in it so you have something to grab on to to pull it back out.

Jay

Interesting references but in light of the information in this thread, one must question the safety of their recommendation about belaying off the rope loop. From the looks of the pictures, the advice is probably out-of-date with the new information on problems conneted to connecting to the rope loop.

Rob.calm

The figure-8 version of the EDK is a death knot even without tucking back the tails. It has already been shown to be too weak for joining rappel ropes and has been reported to have caused at least one fatal rappel accident.

Jay

The double bowline for leading, by the way, is not because the knot is marginally stronger. It is because of a hunch on my part that you would get better energy absorbtion from the extra turns in the double bowline. Testing has shown that tightening of a figure-8 as a measurable effect on energy absorbtion, and I am guessing (in any case there is no harm done) that the double bowline will absorb a bit more fall energy than a single bowline.