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climbingtrash
Sep 10, 2011, 2:53 AM
Post #27 of 48
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Wo0! But I always tie in with a fig 8 and double fisherman to keep the tail outta the way.
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Rmsyll2
Sep 15, 2011, 3:34 AM
Post #28 of 48
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Where I climb, [almost] everyone does use the fig8. Furthermore, they all start from below the leg loop and go up through it and the waist loop. Brian was putting the end down from the waist loop to start, and I questioned that. A fellow standing near said "It's a loop! What difference does it make!" Bruce explained that there is a load-bearing part that is stronger, if the direction is bottom-up.
Brian continued starting at the top, because he could see it better. One day he had the end down through the leg loop with the needed extra, when someone tripped on the rope, jerking it up. The end whipped him you-know-where, and had him sitting out for some minutes. After that, he starts at the bottom, too.
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bearbreeder
Sep 15, 2011, 4:27 PM
Post #29 of 48
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i always go through the waist loop first now ... then the lower loop ...
ive caught myself at least once this season only going through one loop that was caught on double check
at least by going through the top loop first, if i miss the lower loop and the check doesnt catch it ... it wont be an automatic invert
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Rmsyll2
Sep 23, 2011, 7:14 PM
Post #31 of 48
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"by going through the top loop first, if i miss the lower loop and the check doesnt catch it ... it wont be an automatic invert"
Interesting notion. The leg bands are supposed to take the majority of fall force, they say, with the waist band for general orientation and comfort when sitting. The waist band is connected to the leg bands by the belay loop--so, should we only connect the waist loop as a general practice when tying in to climb?
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bearbreeder
Sep 23, 2011, 7:58 PM
Post #32 of 48
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i believe either loop would hold be itself on most harnesses ...
i always tie into both unless i eff up ... however i have caught myself once or twice in the last few years going through only one loop and in that case IMO its better the top loop than the bottom ... as the latter automatically means inversion in a lead fall
all it takes is an inversion over the wrong ledge or off the ground and yr bear food ....
so i go through the top first then the bottom ... i laughed when someone said they did that on RC a while back ... then a few weeks latter i caught 2 people in a single day going through the bottom loop only on double checks ...
occasionally a gem comes up through all the bear poop on RC 
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marc801
Sep 23, 2011, 11:15 PM
Post #33 of 48
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Rmsyll2 wrote: The waist band is connected to the leg bands by the belay loop--so, should we only connect the waist loop as a general practice when tying in to climb?
As has been suggested many times in the Beginner's forum, stop trying to reinvent the wheel.
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jae8908
Sep 24, 2011, 1:38 AM
Post #34 of 48
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marc801 wrote: Rmsyll2 wrote: The waist band is connected to the leg bands by the belay loop--so, should we only connect the waist loop as a general practice when tying in to climb? No. You should tie in the way the manufacturer of your harness tells you to tie in, since they designed it to work the way they recommend. In general, on the majority of harnesses, it means soft things like rope go through the waist and leg loop tie-in points and hard things like biners go on the belay loop. As has been suggested many times in the Beginner's forum, stop trying to reinvent the wheel.
^What he said. Check this.
http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/climbing+harness.html
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deserttortoise
Sep 26, 2011, 3:01 AM
Post #35 of 48
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The author of The Mountaineering Handbook, by Craig Connally. really gets into the Yosemite Bowline. He claims it is stronger, easier to untie after being loaded, and strangely, easier to visually check. All pretty accurate with the exception of visually checking it. I'm trying to adopt the knot myself but I still find my re threaded figure 8 on a bight easier to inspect.
The top picture in your post is the same knot though. I do like it and as I get more confidence in tying it I'll use it for my tie in all the time.
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sungam
Sep 26, 2011, 8:36 AM
Post #36 of 48
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deserttortoise wrote: The author of The Mountaineering Handbook, by Craig Connally.
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dharmanos
Sep 26, 2011, 1:53 PM
Post #37 of 48
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deserttortoise wrote: The author of The Mountaineering Handbook, by Craig Connally. really gets into the Yosemite Bowline. He claims it is stronger, easier to untie after being loaded, and strangely, easier to visually check. All pretty accurate with the exception of visually checking it. I'm trying to adopt the knot myself but I still find my re threaded figure 8 on a bight easier to inspect. The top picture in your post is the same knot though. I do like it and as I get more confidence in tying it I'll use it for my tie in all the time.
+1
Goto http://www.amazon.com/...niques/dp/0071430105
Click "Search inside this book" and type Yosemite Bowline. This should take you to page 137. Craig basically trashes the figure 8 against the superior Yosemite bowline.
[edited to add live link]
(This post was edited by dharmanos on Sep 26, 2011, 1:55 PM)
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deserttortoise
Sep 26, 2011, 3:06 PM
Post #38 of 48
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sungam wrote: deserttortoise wrote: The author of The Mountaineering Handbook, by Craig Connally. Strangest sentence I've read in a while.
Got me laughing. Cut and paste really works. Strunk and White doesn't.... but Iv'e written stranger! Even published some that the editors couldn't believe. Glad you caught it though... hate to think there is no one to read these things...
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bearbreeder
Sep 26, 2011, 5:04 PM
Post #39 of 48
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i do have mr connaly's book and i find it a good read
but i do find some of the advice a bit questionable, particularly about the 8
in an alpine environment that he talks about ... you should not be falling enough to "require" a bowline ... also when yr cold, tired, hungry and wet ... i suspect you want a knot that ANY partner can double check ...
for every person that says that 8s cant be used on hard climbs where you fall, bowlines are easier to double check, bowlines are "stronger" (really are you worried about the strength of an 8?) etc ... theres very good alpine, sports, trad climbers all over the word, and not so good ones using the 8 despite all the supposed disadvantages
a beginner should ONLY use an 8 IMO ... because their partners may not be able to double check anything else ... and no its not the partners responsibility to learn all the bowline variations that they can recognize them at a glance
after that, you can use whatever you want ... just make sure you self check yrself if yr partner cant
(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Sep 26, 2011, 5:05 PM)
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shane123
Sep 28, 2011, 8:50 AM
Post #40 of 48
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Hey tie knot is not so easier as we think of.
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shockabuku
Sep 28, 2011, 12:25 PM
Post #41 of 48
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Edited to delete because I'm trying to be a better person than Sungam. It's probably not going to work out but I thought I'd try.
(This post was edited by shockabuku on Sep 28, 2011, 12:36 PM)
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climbingtrash
Sep 28, 2011, 12:50 PM
Post #42 of 48
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shane123 wrote: Hey tie knot is not so easier as we think of.
iz troo!
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csproul
Sep 28, 2011, 1:27 PM
Post #43 of 48
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shockabuku wrote: ... I'm trying to be a better person than Sungam. ...
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shockabuku
Sep 28, 2011, 3:03 PM
Post #44 of 48
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csproul wrote: shockabuku wrote: ... I'm trying to be a better person than Sungam. ... At least you're setting the bar high.
Baby steps man, baby steps.
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dan2see
Sep 28, 2011, 6:06 PM
Post #45 of 48
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dan2see wrote: Repeat after me ... I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. There's pictures and words:
About.com
And stop trying to re-invent the wheel!
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shockabuku
Sep 28, 2011, 8:08 PM
Post #46 of 48
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dan2see wrote: dan2see wrote: Repeat after me ... I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness. There's pictures and words:
About.com
And stop trying to re-invent the wheel!
I can't confirm the upper tie-in point.
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dan2see
Sep 28, 2011, 8:35 PM
Post #47 of 48
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shockabuku wrote: dan2see wrote: ... dan2see wrote: There's pictures and words:
About.com
And stop trying to re-invent the wheel! I can't confirm the upper tie-in point.
In the picture, the climber has not finished tying in. That's why you can't confirm it.
To see the completed knot, click on the picture.
But the important message is: Always tie a figure-eight (traced back on itself) through both tie-in points. The result is strong, secure, safe, and easy to verify.
The secondary message is: It's always OK to use the same old boring methods everybody else uses. Even if the old knot boring. Even if your new knot is cool.
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sungam
Sep 28, 2011, 8:55 PM
Post #48 of 48
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shockabuku wrote: Edited to delete because I'm trying to be a better person than Sungam. It's probably not going to work out but I thought I'd try.
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