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Marylandclimber
Sep 29, 2011, 7:31 PM
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Is the GriGri2 safe to use? Like i heard it slips and isnt really auto-locking. Iv'e seen people solo toprope with it. is that really safe? Thanks for the responses...
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dharmanos
Sep 29, 2011, 7:38 PM
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I have one and have used it indoors, outdoors, TR and sport. It was recalled but petzl replaced it free of charge including shipping. It's smaller and lighter than the original. I think it also works smoother. I trust it and recommend it's use. I have not noticed any significant slippage. I usually use it with my 10 mm mammut supernova rope.
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Idako
Sep 29, 2011, 7:46 PM
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I use mine in the gym and outdoors top-roping and the only issue I have is with some of the larger Gym ropes sometimes lowering is a little finicky, i blame the older ropes though :). Other than that it has performed well and locks appropriately.
My outdoor rope is 9.8mm.
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mikebee
Sep 30, 2011, 12:35 AM
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I love my Gri Gri 2 with ropes from 9.4mm to 10.2.
Thicker than that, and they bind up a bit too much for my liking. That said, I don't own any ropes that thick so it's not an issue.
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lena_chita
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Sep 30, 2011, 1:52 PM
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Marylandclimber wrote: Is the GriGri2 safe to use? Like i heard it slips and isnt really auto-locking. Iv'e seen people solo toprope with it. is that really safe? Thanks for the responses...
Gri-Gri 2 is no more, and no less, "auto-locking" than the old gri-gri. The are both locking-assist devices. The rope doesn't just randomly "slip" under normal everyday sport climbing use conditions with either device, assuming you are using it properly.
Just like any other non-defective locking-assist belay device, the gri-gri two is only as safe as the person using it.
As far as using it for TR solo, the answer is it depends, and in your case the answer is probably no.
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billcoe_
Oct 1, 2011, 3:15 AM
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Marylandclimber wrote: Is the GriGri2 safe to use? Like i heard it slips and isnt really auto-locking. Iv'e seen people solo toprope with it. is that really safe? Thanks for the responses...
There is no better device than a Gri gri 2. It does everything they say and more.
*It will belay without slipping.
*It will cook eggs and toast in the morning for you.
*It will drive you to work.
*They can be made to pleasure you and will supplant the need for a spouse.
*They will grow crops.
*They will bring you cool sweet water in the evening.
*They will update you with the news.
*They give excellent financial advice.
*You will never need to listen to another jt512 diatribe as these are much more accurate and factual.
*They will make you a drink or pour you wine in the evening.
*They will walk your dog or kick the neighbors cat for you.
*They will hum your favorite tunes and rock you to sleep in their bosom at night.
Yea and he sayeth: "they are the best thing ever made, almost as good as a Cinch. " Hope that helps. You are of course welcome.
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billcoe_
Oct 1, 2011, 3:27 AM
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Oh, as noted, the first ones would fall apart and not break at all ...well, they did break, but they wouldn't "Brake" or effectively slow the belay down if you pulled the lever back too far. SNAP! They say this occurred multiple times, so they recalled the early ones. I was able to trade my shit grey one for a pretty orange one. They really are the schizz. Make sure that you are never belayed by a recalled model or death may await you. Really.
This is the card they sent me when it came back from the recall:
It's on my waist, seen here 2 days ago on a new gear route we did. Forgot to unclip it. had a water bottle on the other side too. Forgot to unclip that too. Duh.
I own all the rest of the similar devices too:
You have any other questions?
You know you can revive an old Cinch by replacing the pin out of it? Stan Miller showed me that one.
What else?
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dharmanos
Oct 1, 2011, 4:52 AM
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I'm jealous. I didn't get a nice card with my replaced recalled grigri 2.
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barleywino
Oct 4, 2011, 6:25 PM
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i find it can slip if you are rappelling or ascending with it and take your weight momentarily off it
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other
Feb 2, 2012, 2:24 PM
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My partner dropped me to the ground while using a Petzl GriGri model 1, the old style. I've explained to all GriGri users how to safely use it, slowly pull back on the handle and slowly lower the climber while keeping the brake hand on the rope, and let go of the handle if the person starts to drop/lower quickly. I'm going to buy the GriGri 2 new model, which from what I've read helps the belayer lower the climber much smoother and slower. Whichever belay device you use, please be extra careful when lowering your partner. When using any belay device including a grigri, never take your brake hand off the rope tail.
Here's a good grigri 2 review:
http://www.climb.co.za/2010/10/grigri-2-review-assisted-braking-belay-device-review/
I'd interested to hear opinions on the grigri 2 and other autolock devices.
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acorneau
Feb 2, 2012, 2:45 PM
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other wrote: My partner dropped me to the ground while using a Petzl GriGri model 1, the old style. I've explained to all GriGri users how to safely use it, ...
No judgement on you or your belayer but the way you phrase your statement makes me wonder...
How experienced would you rate the belayer mentioned above:
-Novice (little to no experience at all)
-Beginner (some experience but not much)
-Experienced (regularly climbs/belays)
Again, I'm not judging you or your partner, but I'm really curious if it was the device itself (highly unlikely) or the skill of the belayer (highly likely).
(This post was edited by acorneau on Feb 2, 2012, 2:45 PM)
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Traches
Feb 2, 2012, 3:12 PM
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In reply to: Again, I'm not judging you or your partner, but I'm really curious if it was the device itself (highly unlikely) or the skill of the belayer (highly likely).
I agree with you here-- I've heard many people claim the grigri is unsafe, but the only accidents I can find involving one were the result of an inexperienced belayer either holding the cam down in a panicked death grip, or squeezing the climber's side of the rope enough to prevent the cam from engaging.
I was dropped ~30 feet with an ATC while top-roping at a gym-- inexperienced belayer, but I wasn't hurt because she burned her left hand trying to catch me. The funny part is that she never lost the brake side of the rope, she just panicked and didn't tighten down on that side. I still don't understand it, but I don't think it wouldn't have happened with a grigri.
It goes without saying that a safe belayer is more important than any device, but since the grigri requires a specific, positive action in order to make it fail while a non-locking device requires either no action or the wrong action, the grigri is safer.
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shockabuku
Feb 2, 2012, 6:41 PM
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other wrote: My partner dropped me to the ground while using a Petzl GriGri model 1, the old style. I've explained to all GriGri users how to safely use it, slowly pull back on the handle and slowly lower the climber while keeping the brake hand on the rope, and let go of the handle if the person starts to drop/lower quickly. I'm going to buy the GriGri 2 new model, which from what I've read helps the belayer lower the climber much smoother and slower. Whichever belay device you use, please be extra careful when lowering your partner. When using any belay device including a grigri, never take your brake hand off the rope tail. Here's a good grigri 2 review: http://www.climb.co.za/2010/10/grigri-2-review-assisted-braking-belay-device-review/ I'd interested to hear opinions on the grigri 2 and other autolock devices.
Frankly, I like the old one better than the new one.
I don't think there's really much difference in the lowering but maybe that's just because I haven't used the new one as much.
It is not a good tool for an inexperienced person to use and with a thin or slick rope can be troublesome (either version).
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jt512
Feb 2, 2012, 7:51 PM
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Traches wrote: I was dropped ~30 feet with an ATC while top-roping at a gym-- inexperienced belayer, but I wasn't hurt because she burned her left hand trying to catch me. The funny part is that she never lost the brake side of the rope, she just panicked and didn't tighten down on that side. I still don't understand it, but I don't think it wouldn't have happened with a grigri.
There's a good chance that doing what she did, she would have dropped you with a Grigri 1 as well. Clamping down on the climber's side of the rope reduces the force on the cam, which can prevent, and has prevented, the cam from engaging. I know of numerous accidents caused by this error.
I don't know if the Grigri 2 is as susceptible to this error as the Grigri 1.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Feb 3, 2012, 7:16 AM)
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jt512
Feb 2, 2012, 7:57 PM
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shockabuku wrote: Frankly, I like the old one better than the new one.
I'm trying to really like the Grigri 2 as much as I thought I would. However, I am still having trouble with the Grigri 2 locking up when I feed slack—a problem I never had with the GriGri 1. With the Grigri 2 it seems like any little kink or friction in the stack of rope causes the device to lock up. I have to flake the rope perfectly to prevent these inadvertent lock-ups.
Jay
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bearbreeder
Feb 2, 2012, 8:40 PM
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mammut smart ... half the prices, less weight, more intuitive to use, no moving parts ...
and with the alpine smart you can do double strand raps ...
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shoo
Feb 2, 2012, 8:53 PM
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jt512 wrote: I'm trying to really like the Grigri 2 as much as I thought I would. However, I am still having trouble with the Grigri 2 locking up when I feed slack—a problem I never had with the GriGri 1. With the Grigri 2 it seems like any little kink or friction in the stack of rope causes the device to lock up. I have to flake the rope perfectly to prevent these inadvertent lock-ups. Jay
Edit note: The technique below is substantially different than what is officially recommended by Petzl. YMMV.
I find that w/ the GG2, I have my thumb feathering or hovering over the cam almost constantly to keep the rope flowing smoothly. If I need to lock off, thumb pulls back.
For me, reducing short-roping to nearly 0 is more important than having the device ready to lock at all times, especially since the amount of time it takes to move your thumb a half cm up or out is negligible for an attentive belayer.
Edit:
To Other, sounds like classic "give a noob a grigri." You should not try to replace competence with convenience. Consider re-thinking how thoroughly and to whom you teach and whether you are able to discern if those you teach are able to act effectively on said instruction.
(This post was edited by shoo on Feb 2, 2012, 9:14 PM)
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jt512
Feb 2, 2012, 9:04 PM
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shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: I'm trying to really like the Grigri 2 as much as I thought I would. However, I am still having trouble with the Grigri 2 locking up when I feed slack—a problem I never had with the GriGri 1. With the Grigri 2 it seems like any little kink or friction in the stack of rope causes the device to lock up. I have to flake the rope perfectly to prevent these inadvertent lock-ups. Jay I find that w/ the GG2, I have my thumb feathering or hovering over the cam almost constantly to keep the rope flowing smoothly. If I need to lock off, thumb pulls back.
So, the official Petzl recommendation is to feed the rope with the brake hand. If I understand what you're doing, is rather than feeding the rope with the brake you're keeping your brake hand in a more-or-less stationary position near the grigri with your thumb positioned above the cam, and you're pulling out rope with your guide hand. Now, what happens when you pull rope out: does the cam contact your thumb, so that you're actually blocking the cam?
In reply to: For me, reducing short-roping to nearly 0 is more important than having the device ready to lock at all times, especially since the amount of time it takes to move your thumb a half cm up or out is negligible for an attentive belayer.
I agree. I have experimented with doing something close (maybe identical) to what you're doing, and it works better. I am, however, stubbornly trying to stick with the recommended technique, in part, because some climbers seem not to have a problem with it.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Feb 3, 2012, 7:17 AM)
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shoo
Feb 2, 2012, 9:12 PM
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jt512 wrote: So, the official Petzl recommendation is to feed the rope with the brake hand. If I understand what you're doing, is rather than feeding the rope with the brake you're keeping your brake in a more-or-less stationary position near the grigri with your thumb positioned above the cam, and you're pulling out rope with your guide hand. Now, what happens when you pull rope out: does the cam contact your thumb, so that you're actually blocking the cam?
That is correct. My guide hand does most of the work, brake hand is on the device probably 90% of the time. My thumb isn't always pressing or in direct contact with the cam, but it's generally somewhere around it.
It simply takes too long to switch from hand on the rope alone to hand on the cam when I have to feed slack quickly (i.e. when a climber is clipping), resulting in short roping, but it takes no time at all to do the reverse when I want to lock off.
I will edit my post above to state that this is NOT the Petzl-recommended method.
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jt512
Feb 2, 2012, 9:13 PM
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shoo wrote: I will edit my post above to state that this is NOT the Petzl-recommended method.
Meh. I wouldn't.
Jay
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shotwell
Feb 2, 2012, 9:27 PM
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jt512 wrote: shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: I'm trying to really like the Grigri 2 as much as I thought I would. However, I am still having trouble with the Grigri 2 locking up when I feed slack—a problem I never had with the GriGri 1. With the Grigri 2 it seems like any little kink or friction in the stack of rope causes the device to lock up. I have to flake the rope perfectly to prevent these inadvertent lock-ups. Jay I find that w/ the GG2, I have my thumb feathering or hovering over the cam almost constantly to keep the rope flowing smoothly. If I need to lock off, thumb pulls back. So, the official Petzl recommendation is to feed the rope with the brake hand. If I understand what you're doing, is rather than feeding the rope with the brake you're keeping your brake in a more-or-less stationary position near the grigri with your thumb positioned above the cam, and you're pulling out rope with your guide hand. Now, what happens when you pull rope out: does the cam contact your thumb, so that you're actually blocking the cam? In reply to: For me, reducing short-roping to nearly 0 is more important than having the device ready to lock at all times, especially since the amount of time it takes to move your thumb a half cm up or out is negligible for an attentive belayer. I agree. I have experimented with doing something close (maybe identical) to what you're doing, and it works better. I am, however, stubbornly trying to stick with the recommended technique, in part, because some climbers seem not to have a problem with it. Jay
I reluctantly prefer the old device for the ease of feeding. However, I exclusively use the 'new' technique with either device.
Jay, what diameter rope are you using? How tight is the sheath weave? For me, 10.1 is the biggest diameter I can smoothly feed. The tighter the sheath, the smoother the feed. For example, my Sterling Marathon grabs the cam a lot more frequently than my Sterling Evolution Kosmos. Both have comparable sheath wear. If I'm climbing with the Marathon I will only belay on the original.
Finally, my wife prefers the original as it doesn't try to 'manage' how she lowers. She finds a smooth lower much easier with the original design. I found this quite surprising, as I assumed the updated lever would make mid-range control better. She finds it to either bind up or run way too fast.
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jt512
Feb 2, 2012, 9:38 PM
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shotwell wrote: jt512 wrote: shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: I'm trying to really like the Grigri 2 as much as I thought I would. However, I am still having trouble with the Grigri 2 locking up when I feed slack—a problem I never had with the GriGri 1. With the Grigri 2 it seems like any little kink or friction in the stack of rope causes the device to lock up. I have to flake the rope perfectly to prevent these inadvertent lock-ups. Jay I find that w/ the GG2, I have my thumb feathering or hovering over the cam almost constantly to keep the rope flowing smoothly. If I need to lock off, thumb pulls back. So, the official Petzl recommendation is to feed the rope with the brake hand. If I understand what you're doing, is rather than feeding the rope with the brake you're keeping your brake in a more-or-less stationary position near the grigri with your thumb positioned above the cam, and you're pulling out rope with your guide hand. Now, what happens when you pull rope out: does the cam contact your thumb, so that you're actually blocking the cam? In reply to: For me, reducing short-roping to nearly 0 is more important than having the device ready to lock at all times, especially since the amount of time it takes to move your thumb a half cm up or out is negligible for an attentive belayer. I agree. I have experimented with doing something close (maybe identical) to what you're doing, and it works better. I am, however, stubbornly trying to stick with the recommended technique, in part, because some climbers seem not to have a problem with it. Jay I reluctantly prefer the old device for the ease of feeding. However, I exclusively use the 'new' technique with either device. Jay, what diameter rope are you using? How tight is the sheath weave? For me, 10.1 is the biggest diameter I can smoothly feed. The tighter the sheath, the smoother the feed. For example, my Sterling Marathon grabs the cam a lot more frequently than my Sterling Evolution Kosmos. Both have comparable sheath wear. If I'm climbing with the Marathon I will only belay on the original.
I could be experiencing a rope effect. I've used the Grigri 2 almost exclusively with one rope: a 9.7-mm Beal that is fairly new, but somewhat dirty. I don't know about the sheath tightness per se, but Beal ropes in general feel soft compared with other brands.
Jay
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shotwell
Feb 2, 2012, 9:40 PM
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jt512 wrote: shotwell wrote: jt512 wrote: shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: I'm trying to really like the Grigri 2 as much as I thought I would. However, I am still having trouble with the Grigri 2 locking up when I feed slack—a problem I never had with the GriGri 1. With the Grigri 2 it seems like any little kink or friction in the stack of rope causes the device to lock up. I have to flake the rope perfectly to prevent these inadvertent lock-ups. Jay I find that w/ the GG2, I have my thumb feathering or hovering over the cam almost constantly to keep the rope flowing smoothly. If I need to lock off, thumb pulls back. So, the official Petzl recommendation is to feed the rope with the brake hand. If I understand what you're doing, is rather than feeding the rope with the brake you're keeping your brake in a more-or-less stationary position near the grigri with your thumb positioned above the cam, and you're pulling out rope with your guide hand. Now, what happens when you pull rope out: does the cam contact your thumb, so that you're actually blocking the cam? In reply to: For me, reducing short-roping to nearly 0 is more important than having the device ready to lock at all times, especially since the amount of time it takes to move your thumb a half cm up or out is negligible for an attentive belayer. I agree. I have experimented with doing something close (maybe identical) to what you're doing, and it works better. I am, however, stubbornly trying to stick with the recommended technique, in part, because some climbers seem not to have a problem with it. Jay I reluctantly prefer the old device for the ease of feeding. However, I exclusively use the 'new' technique with either device. Jay, what diameter rope are you using? How tight is the sheath weave? For me, 10.1 is the biggest diameter I can smoothly feed. The tighter the sheath, the smoother the feed. For example, my Sterling Marathon grabs the cam a lot more frequently than my Sterling Evolution Kosmos. Both have comparable sheath wear. If I'm climbing with the Marathon I will only belay on the original. I could be experiencing a rope effect. I've used the Grigri 2 almost exclusively with one rope: a 9.7-mm Beal that is fairly new, but somewhat dirty. I don't know about the sheath tightness per se, but Beal ropes in general feel soft compared with other brands. Jay
Interesting. The Marathon is a far softer rope than the Kosmos. The stiffness may be the actual difference, not the weave.
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Traches
Feb 2, 2012, 10:22 PM
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jt512 wrote: There's a good chance that doing what she did, she would have dropped you with a Grigri 1 as well. Clamping down on the climber's side of the rope reduces the force on the cam, which can prevent, and has prevented, the cam from engaging. I know of numerous accidents caused by this error. I don't know if the Grigri 2 is as susceptible to error as the Grigri 1. Jay
You're probably right, but I'd say it's a tossup. Isn't it pretty tricky to reproduce this kind of failure? I haven't tested it.
As far as feeding slack, is this the method you guys are talking about? (Fast forward to about 3:50)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSVchbjVKLE
It works well for me, no shortroping/jamming but still safe. I've heard some say you shouldn't ever touch the cam while belaying, but I don't see how that can be practical.
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jt512
Feb 3, 2012, 1:14 AM
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Traches wrote: jt512 wrote: There's a good chance that doing what she did, she would have dropped you with a Grigri 1 as well. Clamping down on the climber's side of the rope reduces the force on the cam, which can prevent, and has prevented, the cam from engaging. I know of numerous accidents caused by this error. I don't know if the Grigri 2 is as susceptible to error as the Grigri 1. Jay Isn't it pretty tricky to reproduce this kind of failure? I haven't tested it.
I doubt that it would be hard to intentionally reproduce, but that isn't the point. What is the point is that grabbing the climber's side of the rope was at least a contributing factor in the vast majority of grigri accidents I have witnessed or heard about.
Jay
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