I was prepraing my gf for her first multipitch, and she asked me this: if you shouldn't clip the same half ropes to the same draw, because the two ropes have the chance to cut through each other, then can you redirect the belay through the same biner you put the clove hitch in. If the second falls and there's enough slack in the rope there's a chance that the rope will go taut over the clove hitch. This got me thinking. For now I told her to use guide mode or separate biners for the redirect and the clove.

For now I told her to use guide mode or separate biners for the redirect and the clove.

Good answer. In my opinion, there are very few circumstances when using a a redirect is preferable to guide mode. Other than possible comfort issues, I can't think of a single situation I wouldn't use guide mode.

Of course, if your anchor is suspect, then guide mode isn't a good idea, but then again, neither is a redirect.

Good answer. In my opinion, there are very few circumstances when using a a redirect is preferable to guide mode. Other than possible comfort issues, I can't think of a single situation I wouldn't use guide mode.

Of course, if your anchor is suspect, then guide mode isn't a good idea, but then again, neither is a redirect.

BTW, rgold now speaks about what he calls a modified harness belay which is building your anchor with the rope then belaying off the harness tie in loop. I see it a little differently, as it is primarily just an extended tail of the anchor that he belays off of. However, it puts the belay device in a familiar, comfortable position while still letting you belay off the anchor. I've already adjusted my primary top belay method thanks to Rich (and others.) I've heard of the method before, but it made a lot more sense to me the way Rich explained it. It works really well.

I will use a redirect often instead of guide mode when I need to lower someone ie if they are working a section. Lowering in guide mode with guide/reverso leave quite a bit to be desired.

Can you link to the thread you speak of. I'd be curious to understand what you're talking about.

Thx.

if you shouldn't clip the same half ropes to the same draw, because the two ropes have the chance to cut through each other

Who told you that half ropes clipped through the same biner will cut each other? Half ropes are typically not clipped through the same biner because 1) it defeats the advantage of using half ropes and 2) two half ropes clipped through the same piece could increase the impact force in the event of a fall. Twin ropes are regularly clipped through the same biners with no adverse effect.

... I and many others never see a reason to use 'guide mode.' Are you really telling me you can't give a competent top rope belay without 'guide mode?' Use it if you wish, but don't pretend it is the end all, be all of top belaying.

rgold has railed on guide mode for years, and I feel the same way. I want a belayer that can quickly and easily manage the slack in both directions. I want a belayer that can lower me quickly and competently. I want a belayer that does more than take in the rope until I hit the anchor. And I want to be just as great a belayer for my second and I am when belaying a leader ...

There is a device called a Gri-Gri that will change your religion.

Flame on.

I will use a redirect often instead of guide mode when I need to lower someone ie if they are working a section. Lowering in guide mode with guide/reverso leave quite a bit to be desired.

I and many others never see a reason to use 'guide mode.'

Are you really telling me you can't give a competent top rope belay without 'guide mode?'

I want a belayer that can quickly and easily manage the slack in both directions. I want a belayer that can lower me quickly and competently.

First off, don't use "Guide" mode for inexperienced partners. ... You're dealing with a first timer on multi-pitch. They don't need "Guide" mode. Let them get through the basics first.

...I and many others never see a reason to use 'guide mode.'...

There is a device called a Gri-Gri that will change your religion.

Flame on.

I don't know about in the states, but in Australia, all the rockclimbing guiding and instructional bodies are recommending it as "best practice" for a typical multipitch climb, so there must be some people who agree it is superior.
It's gaining traction within the mountaineering community too, Mark Twight, for example, talks about it in Extreme Alpinism.

Thats all good and well, but how often, in reality, do you ever find yourself getting lowered while seconding a pitch?

Here's one: moving quickly (even as a team of three) on long climbs.

I can safely belay up two seconds simultaneously, while at the same time getting myself ready to lead the next pitch (drinking some water, eating a snack, adjusting clothes/gear). The time savings makes a big difference on long ice routes on short winter days, or on long alpine climbs.

How about being able to eat and drink or take photos while the second is climbing up because you can go hands free as needed?

Since we're talking about half-ropes, why don't you tell us all about this new device?