In the past 10 years, number of accidents related to first time outdoor climbers or those with very low experience in outdoor climbing has significantly increased and I like to hear from you guys on what you think these problems are.

As one old-schooler told me " the previous generation knew WTF was going on but today's freshes are clueless on the wall".

Source?

I think the volume of people climbing has increased and is a big part of the question. I think it is compounded by the number of "classes" being offered.

i think part of it is the fact that many young climbers are "learning" from the internet, then thinking they can place protection and belay properly.

i've been climbing for 8 years, and learned a lot of basic information from the interweb. but i had a couple of good friends that are climbers that took me out before i started going on my own. but then again that was 8 years ago.

In the past 10 years there has been an increasing tendency to rag on gym and sport climbers and blame them for pretty much everything that goes wrong. Why do you think that is? Could it be related to the fact that the sport climbers can typically climb circles around they nay sayers? Do you remember how the Appies preached that the Vulgarians were grossly inexperienced, unsafe and accidents waiting to happen? And coincidentally the Vulgarians could climb circles around the Appies.

In the past 10 years there has been an increasing tendency to misrepresent statistics and ignore simple things like accident rates and just use totals because it seems to make a point.

In the past 10 years ANAM has become increasingly marginalized in terms of overall statistics. It's still an excellent learning tool but to use it as a bible for overall accident statistics is hopeless.

In the past 10 years Majid's trolls have been getting weaker - running out of gas?

you don't read accident reports do you ?

I think olderic raises a valid point.

However

I do think gym climbers come outdoors without experience in setting up anchors, or even thinking about them very much. I know that when I'm in the gym I don't think a lot about them, after all, they're set up for us and are all the same.

Also, in a gym, because I'm standing right next to my partner at the start and end of the climb, we get lax about out belay signals. This does tend to carry over into outdoor settings with similar geometry.

I´d also like to see the statistical justification for your statement, we are seeing a general reduction in accidents per participant over the years in Europe but there is no breakdown of experience available. The impression I get from the accident reports over here is that is not particularly the beginners at risk and a quick trawl of the accident reports on RC.com also gives the overwhelming impression of a large proportion of experienced/very experienced climbers getting killed.

I would like to know the source, too. I actually enjoy statistics (rather than accident reports) for some sick reason. If you have the source, please share.

The source is not in one place rather, 100s of reports I read per month from all over the world and in 12 years of me monitoring climbing accident, it does not take much to see where things are going.

Sorry, that's not going to cut it. Show me the relationship. Show me significance.

Like the lady says.
Can you justify your statement or not?

I have my own records and you guys are welcome to go back to I&A and review 10 years of accident postings and come up with your own analysis.

Translation: "No"

I´d also like to see the statistical justification for your statement, we are seeing a general reduction in accidents per participant over the years in Europe but there is no breakdown of experience available.

Translation: "No"