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veal
May 8, 2012, 2:00 AM
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I am a long time climber and collector of guide books. I feel they are a part of my history of climbing, as well as a small repayment to the many people in the climbing community that have made it possible for me to climb in some of the most spectacular places.
My question is should people buy guide books, or just borrow them from a friend. I obviously know how I feel, but would love to hear input from the community.
I have a friend who is relatively new to climbing who wants to borrow a book. I feel that he should buy it, it's only a 25-35$ investment. I am very protective of my books, they are part history, as well as an eternal reference for future climbing. I have had other friends who have ruined guides before, and I feel that a broken spine, bent/torn/missing pages book is of little to no value to me.
I also believe that buying a guide book, preferably from the local gear shop, helps to support the climbing community that has put in time/money to give me the access and ability to climb there.
Your thoughts and ideas and ethics of this subject please!
And thank you in advance!
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gblauer
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May 8, 2012, 2:08 AM
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I buy all my guidebooks. I usually buy 2. One to send back to the author for an autograph, the other to use in the field. I have a nice collection of signed guide books.
(This post was edited by gblauer on May 8, 2012, 2:09 AM)
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granite_grrl
May 8, 2012, 2:14 AM
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I like buying guidebooks, both for places I've been and places I'd like to get to some day. I've also borrowed books when there is no current guidebook or the current book is junk, or maybe I just can't buy the guidebook at this time.
I also remember being on a 3 month road trip and having a lot of borrowed books. As someone just graduating school I couldn't hardly afford half a dozen guidebooks at $30-40 a pop.
Lots of reasons to borrow, lots of reasons not to. It all depends on the situation.
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bjbkkb
May 8, 2012, 2:46 AM
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I love to buy guide books. I take them with me and mark them up with notes about the various climbs I do. It makes those days that I can't get out a lot more tolerable when I can open my guide book and remember the great fun I had and who was there with me. I have no problem lending someone one of my books. I just ask that they jot down notes in it and hopefully some day I can do the same climb and add to their notes.
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Colinhoglund
May 8, 2012, 3:16 AM
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I too love guidebooks. There's a lot of history and culture in each of them. Some of the older ones that I've found used are prized possessions. However, I will borrow a guide to an area I'm spending just a day or two in or am unlikely to return to. That being said, I have over $300 in guidebooks, and twice that to still buy someday.
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Bats
May 8, 2012, 3:31 AM
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I always buy. If a friend wants to borrow a book, I will buy them the book. I have way too many books borrowed and never returned or come back damaged. One book that was loan out is MIA, but because I know the author's husband, I am going get an autograph copy for free. It's funny when you ask people for your property back, and they get all weird on you.
Also it’s always good to have a copy, because my most of climbing partners are horrible at directions. I asked to see their guide books, and I figure the correct directions for the purposed routes for the day.
In fact, while I am thinking of it, I need to get my book back from my business partner.
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dagibbs
May 8, 2012, 12:22 PM
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I like buying guide books. Then again, I just like buying books -- I own something over 2000 books. I don't own that many guide books, but I do own guide books both for places I'd like to go, and for places I may never go cause those guide books were on sale/really cheap.
But, I have no problem with borrowing or lending books, or guide books. Especially if the guide book is out of print (as too many are) or otherwise hard to find.
I would like to see more online guide books -- I feel that many guide books are acts of love, rather than profit-making centers. Among other things, I feel that online guide books could, far more easily, be kept up to date. When the only guide book for an area is 15+ years out of date... well, things have often changed in the last 15+ years. (areas closed, areas opened, rock fall changing routes, new routes opened, old manky bolts replaced, and most especially, land marks changed. )
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lena_chita
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May 8, 2012, 1:22 PM
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Another vote for buying. Though if I am going with someone else to a new (for me) area, and my partner had been there before and does have a guidebook already, i would hold off on buying my own guidebook for the area, until I am certain that I would go back there again.
I wouldn't borrow a guidebook from a friend, because there is a high potential of the book being returned in a worse-off shape than it was when it was borrowed, and that can lead to some friction with the said friends.
I do not take super-special care with my guidebooks. I mean, I don't throw them in the mud and rip out pages, I do want them to last, but they are books that meant to be used, IMO. The dog-eared, marked copy with check marks, additional scribbled topo notes, and squished bugs between some pages looks exactly like a climbing guidebook should look, in my opinion. They are not the glossy coffee table books to me. But for some people they are more precious (as they are to OP), so better to have my own copy and not spend the climbing trip trying to keep someone else's guidebook pristine and untouched.
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tradmanclimbs
May 8, 2012, 2:41 PM
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Buy the damn book and help a starveing author. Makes a nice collection . keep notes in them so you can refrence when you get old.....
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jomagam
May 8, 2012, 4:33 PM
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Anyone else thinks that the Mountainproject iPhone (and soon Android) app makes guidebooks obsolete ? I'm all for contributing to the climbing community, but there are other and IMHO better ways, like donating to a climbers coalition or fund, volunteering in a crag cleanup, etc...
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jolery
May 8, 2012, 5:10 PM
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veal wrote: I am a long time climber and collector of guide books. I feel they are a part of my history of climbing, as well as a small repayment to the many people in the climbing community that have made it possible for me to climb in some of the most spectacular places. My question is should people buy guide books, or just borrow them from a friend. I obviously know how I feel, but would love to hear input from the community. I have a friend who is relatively new to climbing who wants to borrow a book. I feel that he should buy it, it's only a 25-35$ investment. I am very protective of my books, they are part history, as well as an eternal reference for future climbing. I have had other friends who have ruined guides before, and I feel that a broken spine, bent/torn/missing pages book is of little to no value to me. I also believe that buying a guide book, preferably from the local gear shop, helps to support the climbing community that has put in time/money to give me the access and ability to climb there. Your thoughts and ideas and ethics of this subject please! And thank you in advance!
I love guidebooks too, but let's get real - we've all got dirtbag climber buddies. If they need a guidebook for a trip and don't have an extra $25, I'm sure as hell gonna lend them mine. Sure they could probably scrape the money up - point is, they won't. They'll piece shit together off the internet, ask people for beta, or just borrow a guidebook. Even the dirtbags will eventually buy a guidebook though, if they end up going there more than once, or if it is a local crag. So lighten up and lend that guidebook. That's my vote. We're not talking about photocopying a guidebook right? Any of you guidebook clutching folk out there ever borrow a novel or other book? What about lend one to a friend?
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clee03m
May 8, 2012, 5:37 PM
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I agree with what jolery said. I am not going to tell my climbing buddy who can't afford a decent rope to go and buy a guidebook. I expect my books to return in worse shape. I am OK with that as long as they do come back to me in one piece. I have always bought my own books, but now that I am working part time and don't have as much disposable income, I may start borrowing.
I do agree though that there is a bit of history with guidebooks. My partner and I were amazed at his guidebook that is so old it talked about the ethical dilemma of using a new device called 'friends' since it really down grades the climb. I told my friend he is OOOOLD!
(This post was edited by clee03m on May 8, 2012, 5:39 PM)
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karmiclimber
May 8, 2012, 5:39 PM
Post #13 of 16
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jolery wrote: veal wrote: I am a long time climber and collector of guide books. I feel they are a part of my history of climbing, as well as a small repayment to the many people in the climbing community that have made it possible for me to climb in some of the most spectacular places. My question is should people buy guide books, or just borrow them from a friend. I obviously know how I feel, but would love to hear input from the community. I have a friend who is relatively new to climbing who wants to borrow a book. I feel that he should buy it, it's only a 25-35$ investment. I am very protective of my books, they are part history, as well as an eternal reference for future climbing. I have had other friends who have ruined guides before, and I feel that a broken spine, bent/torn/missing pages book is of little to no value to me. I also believe that buying a guide book, preferably from the local gear shop, helps to support the climbing community that has put in time/money to give me the access and ability to climb there. Your thoughts and ideas and ethics of this subject please! And thank you in advance! I love guidebooks too, but let's get real - we've all got dirtbag climber buddies. If they need a guidebook for a trip and don't have an extra $25, I'm sure as hell gonna lend them mine. Sure they could probably scrape the money up - point is, they won't. They'll piece shit together off the internet, ask people for beta, or just borrow a guidebook. Even the dirtbags will eventually buy a guidebook though, if they end up going there more than once, or if it is a local crag. So lighten up and lend that guidebook. That's my vote. We're not talking about photocopying a guidebook right? Any of you guidebook clutching folk out there ever borrow a novel or other book? What about lend one to a friend?
Depends on the friend. Almost entirely. Guidebooks aren't cheap, but its not the worst thing they could "borrow" and never give back or give back in bad condition. 
After having most of my climbing gear stolen, on two different occasions (and not by randos at the crag either...dirtbag "friends") I'm more in support of the bitter "guidebook clutching" consensus.
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happiegrrrl
May 8, 2012, 7:51 PM
Post #14 of 16
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Seems to me the question ought to be "Should I LEND my guidebook?" Since we don't really have control over anyone but ourselves.....
To the OP - if you DO decide to lend that book out, you should be very clear to your buddy that if it comes back in anything but as lent condition, you are going to have a resentment.
Save your friend that ageda and tell them flat out that you prize your guidebooks and are uncomfortable lending them out; that you, in fact, do not do so.
Don't put the onus on them.
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sendage
May 17, 2012, 8:36 AM
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For me it depends on a number of things.
1. Is it my local climbing crag? If so - maybe I already know the area well enough, but chances are there are new climbs established that I want to know about. BUY.
2. Am I planning a trip to a new area and want eye-candy and motivation to fuel my excitement. Having a guidebook for this is great, but I may only visit this area once. BORROW
3. How large is the climbing area? Some crags have guides, but not a lot of climbs. I can probably find enough information I want online for a short trip. Especially just the classics. BORROW
4. Do I frequent the climbing area? I travel to Joe's and Hueco regularly. Plus there are a ton of problems there. So having a guide is a good idea if I want to always be trying new climbs. BUY.
I own only a few guidebooks.
Squamish Bouldering
Hueco Tanks
Joe's Valley
Leavenworth
I should own the Bishop guide, but my friend bought it while we were road tripping together. So it didn't make sense for me to own it too.
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bearbreeder
May 17, 2012, 3:22 PM
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your book your choice
a real "friend" wont pressure you to lend them something you arent comfortable with ...
as others have said, in climbing there are dirtbag "friends" who dont treat yr gear with respect or dont return em ... i avoid those ...
i have 4 books on loan to non-dirtbag friends i trust with my gear and life
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