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NJSlacker
Oct 15, 2012, 2:03 PM
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Hey all.
I wanted to see others opinions on the pros and cons of both the Fixe aliens and the yet-to-be-released camalot x4s. I know that this coming spring I'll want to get at least a few of one or the other.
Off the top of my head, it seems that they will be of comparable price, range, and utility. One major difference I can think of would be that the aliens have a softer metal for 'biting' into their placements, which would mean they could wear out faster, while the x4s look like they're going to have a harder, more durable (but more 'slippery') cam lobes.
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kennoyce
Oct 15, 2012, 2:14 PM
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NJSlacker wrote: Hey all. I wanted to see others opinions on the pros and cons of both the Fixe aliens and the yet-to-be-released camalot x4s. I know that this coming spring I'll want to get at least a few of one or the other. Off the top of my head, it seems that they will be of comparable price, range, and utility. One major difference I can think of would be that the aliens have a softer metal for 'biting' into their placements, which would mean they could wear out faster, while the x4s look like they're going to have a harder, more durable (but more 'slippery') cam lobes.
I think you hit the nail on the head. X4's look awesome other than the 7075 aluminum lobes. I'm sure that their internal spring design necessitates the use of the harder aluminum, but it will certainly make me think more than twice about purchasing them.
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bandycoot
Oct 15, 2012, 2:52 PM
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Isn't the appeal of the X4's a larger range due to the asymmetric axle? Or do they have comparable range?
Josh
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kennoyce
Oct 15, 2012, 3:08 PM
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I doubt the range will be any different. The X4s have the asymmetric axel, but the aliens have a bigger camming angle. I haven't seen the specs, but I bet the range will be identical.
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bandycoot
Oct 15, 2012, 4:52 PM
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Ah... different camming angle... Thanks! :)
Josh
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petsfed
Oct 15, 2012, 6:28 PM
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kennoyce wrote: I doubt the range will be any different. The X4s have the asymmetric axel, but the aliens have a bigger camming angle. I haven't seen the specs, but I bet the range will be identical.
I wonder if that would give an advantage on holding power (like Metolius is always talking about).
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kennoyce
Oct 15, 2012, 6:35 PM
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petsfed wrote: kennoyce wrote: I doubt the range will be any different. The X4s have the asymmetric axel, but the aliens have a bigger camming angle. I haven't seen the specs, but I bet the range will be identical. I wonder if that would give an advantage on holding power (like Metolius is always talking about).
It'll certainly increase the outward force on the rock, but the harder aluminum will have less bite (i.e. a lower coeficient of friction), so again, it's probaby a moot point. I'm betting the aliens will have a better real world holding power than the X4's because of this, lab tests, the X4's will probably do better.
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petsfed
Oct 15, 2012, 6:46 PM
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I'd be interested to see how the holding power actually varies because of metal type. I've always operated under the assumption that placement trumps material properties almost every time, so I've bought the cams that gave me the easiest placements. Thus, because of the trigger design, I don't have Aliens or Mastercams, and I won't buy X4s.
That is, I think user preference is way more important than technical details.
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shimanilami
Oct 15, 2012, 7:22 PM
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BD has a reputation for making quality gear, but sometimes the choice comes down to personal preference. At this point, the only "preference" you can have for the X4's is how they look.
At the end of the day, I wouldn't buy anything without trying it out first, perhaps on a friend's rack, or at the store at a minimum.
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billcoe_
Oct 15, 2012, 7:47 PM
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shimanilami wrote: BD has a reputation for making quality gear, but sometimes the choice comes down to personal preference. At this point, the only "preference" you can have for the X4's is how they look. At the end of the day, I wouldn't buy anything without trying it out first, perhaps on a friend's rack, or at the store at a minimum.
Agreed. Black Diamond has some out with some total shit before. Like Shimishami, I'd want to see them first before I'd buy them. I suspect that both Aliens and Totem Basic and Totem cams will outperform them once they do get here, and if I needed either, I wouldn't hesitate to buy either Totem and not wait for anything that Black Diamond may or may not finally produce.
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bearbreeder
Oct 15, 2012, 9:09 PM
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ive played with them ... the larger sizes are basically flexible camalots ... the smaller ones didnt seem too different from mastercams ... but who knows ...
a good climber can climb on any brand of cam
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rocknice2
Oct 16, 2012, 12:19 PM
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I know the CCH Aliens were made from 6061 but the Fixe Aliens ???? I can't find any info on the material they use. The Fixe don't look the same as CCH at all.
Having used Aliens, Mastercams and C4's, their range is:
C4's have the greatest expansion range with Aliens slightly behind and MC's have the least.
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billcoe_
Oct 25, 2012, 5:36 PM
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rocknice2 wrote: I know the CCH Aliens were made from 6061 but the Fixe Aliens ???? I can't find any info on the material they use. The Fixe don't look the same as CCH at all. Having used Aliens, Mastercams and C4's, their range is: C4's have the greatest expansion range with Aliens slightly behind and MC's have the least.
To clarify for anyone interested or awake, Totem makes a dead ringer for the old Alien. (slight size differences to reduce gaps between sizes). They call that "Alien" a Totem Basic. They are the same material CCH use to claim that Aliens were made of. It looks like this:
http://www.totemcams.com/...=3&su=1307635863
Says In reply to: " Internal cam springs for narrow head width. Sheath trigger for maximum flexibility. Stainless 5/32" 7x19 wire rope for all Basic Cam sizes. 16 degrees cam angle, soft lobes with teeth for well trusted holding power. Lobes are CNC machined from 6061-T6 aluminum alloy. Double sheath on trigger. The outer sheath layer has free rotation motion for improved abrasion resistance. NEW trigger wires system. Flexible and strong while maintaining a correct independent lobe motion. NEW rounded lobe edges. More consistent rock contact on non parallel cracks and less flash material on lobe edges. Three well scaled regular sizes from green to red. Two hybrid sizes. The perfect complement for both Totem and Basic Cams. CE certified and individually proof tested."
Fixe is a different company than Totem and they have the rights to the Alien name. Not Totem. There is NO product called a Totem Alien. The cams from Totem and Fixe look the same as the old Aliens, so although they appear identical, the Fixes are called Aliens and the Totem cams are called Basics (pic above) and again, I can't say what Fixe Aliens are made of but the Totem Basics are the exact same material (and shape) as the old CCH Aliens claimed to be per Totems web site.
(This post was edited by billcoe_ on Oct 25, 2012, 5:39 PM)
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