All I am saying that they are other women who climb as good or even better than her so why do you think she is such a significant figure in the climbing world ?

true , but I do not advertise myself as anyone or stand on anything to be as a reference.

I dunno. Maybe because she freed the nose and was the first woman to climb 5.14? Maybe that's it?

if you truly know the history, there is another woman who free the nose in a day 1 week before her.

Clearly I don't know my history, you should enlighten us all. But note I said nothing about NIAD; I just mentioned the FFA.

... and none of it is really relevant to whether Lynn Hill is or isn't qualified to comment on her experience as a female climber.

Have you never heard people use terms for female genitalia, or call their male friends "girl" as a way to shame or motivate them? "Don't be a pussy, bro, commit to it! You can do it!" That is an example of sexism.

Making assumption about someone's abilities based on gender-- that is sexism, too. Etc.

its just doesn't stop


this thread is one big example

if you truly know the history, there is another woman who free the nose in a day 1 week before her.

I can't say that I experienced MORE sexism in the climbing community, or in an "outdoor activity", than I have experienced it in general life. But I have certainly experienced it in climbing.

Have you never heard people use terms for female genitalia, or call their male friends "girl" as a way to shame or motivate them? "Don't be a pussy, bro, commit to it! You can do it!" That is an example of sexism.

Making assumption about someone's abilities based on gender-- that is sexism, too.

You had an example from this very thread (the assumption that a "pretty girl" would, of course, be seconding:


Some real-life examples:

Example 1: the crag is empty. I just climbed, and my (male) partner, who is not feeling the best decides to toprope the climb I led. He is having a hard time at the bottom 1/3rd of the climb when another guy walks in. Looks at the guy climbing, looks at me, looks around, finally asks me: who put the rope up? When I tell him that I did, he does a double-take, regroups, and proceeds with "oh, wow, you must be really strong. Wow, good for you! This climb looks amazing! I don't think I could do it, but someday... "

The guy was not rude to me. In fact, he was really complimentary. BUT, if the situation were reversed, a female climber struggling on a toprope, with a male belaying her, and the crag otherwise empty, would the guy have looked beyond the belaying male for SOMEONE who had led this route? Likely not. Hence-- this is an example of a sexist attitude, even though it was not an act of rudeness directed at me, it clearly shows that the guy has underlying assumptions about men and women climbers

Example 2: I just finished climbing. The rope is up. The crag in empty. My female partner and I are having a leisurely morning. This wall has, in order: 5.10b, 5.9, 5.10d, 5.10b, 5.11d, 5.11d. We hear a large group walking in from a long way off, because they are speaking loudly. The guy who must be the most experienced one in the group says something along the lines of: so, there is a 5.9 there, and a 10b, and I bet we can set the toprope up on the 10d that is next to the 5.9 from the anchors of 5.9...

Finally, the group walks in. The guy in front has a guidebook in his hands, but when he sees us, he stops and says, oh, this must be the 5.9! No, I tell him, the 5.9 is over there. Oh, he says, then this is the 5.10b? (pointing at our rope). No, I tell him, the .10b is the first one on the left, and the 4th one. This is .11d. Again, a double-take from the guy: so, uh, did you climb it? Wow!

The climb in question does NOT look anything like a 5.9, In fact, the start of this climb, while not the crux, looks more intimidating than it is. So the only reason the guy assumed this climb was a 5.9 was... what, exactly? The fact that this is the only rope up, and there are two "girls" underneath it, so of course they must be on the easiest climb!

There is always going to be sexism. Your not going to change that and being on guard all the time and provoking confrontation makes everything worse.

Yes and no. Yes, it can make things worse rather than something positive.
Bill L

I think namoclimber is on the right track with that sentiment. The compass/true north quote from the Lincoln movie comes to mind.

There is always going to be sexism. Your not going to change that and being on guard all the time and provoking confrontation makes everything worse. I find a lot of the time its brought on by individuals with less skill then brains and its best to just do the walking instead of talking. I used to love belaying one of my girl friends on her projects in the red and smith just to hear the comments from passer byes. The crap that comes out of peoples mouths is hilarious. I think its always best to simply ask if they want a try. Then watch as they slink away after they realize its like 5.13+.
Lets just face it though people suck equally. And after all its all about just crushing some rock and enjoying some company or solitude.

There is always going to be sexism. Your not going to change that and being on guard all the time and provoking confrontation makes everything worse. I find a lot of the time its brought on by individuals with less skill then brains and its best to just do the walking instead of talking. I used to love belaying one of my girl friends on her projects in the red and smith just to hear the comments from passer byes. The crap that comes out of peoples mouths is hilarious. I think its always best to simply ask if they want a try. Then watch as they slink away after they realize its like 5.13+.
Lets just face it though people suck equally. And after all its all about just crushing some rock and enjoying some company or solitude.

To the op. I think that rock climbing is one of the least divided sport/activity. I will and know many guys who will not hesitate to climb with a woman if she is safe and can climb at the same level or better. The rock doesn't care who u are. Neither do I.

I honestly don't believe Majid is trying to be a sexist nor a troll on the subject. He's merely giving us his honest response on the subject based on perceptions derived from experiences in his life.

The only way to enlighten him and others is with facts that refute his assessment. I hope.

very, very few people are actually "trolls."

most of the horrible shit on the internet are people's actual opinions that they really believe.


[not that I think what majid said this time is particularly repugnant. just throwin out the reminder that the number of people actually plotting to piss people off is super small. its just that there are a lot of horrible people, and the internet lets those people say what they really think, and also sometimes they are attention-seeking.]

The best thing about the internet is that anybody can have a voice and post anything about any topic they choose to. The worst thing about the internet is that anybody can have a voice and post anything about any topic they choose to.

Curt

Are men and women equal in the outdoors?