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trad_man
Feb 24, 2003, 10:45 PM
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hey iv been climbing not long but im getting into lead climbing and i was looking at this picture and there were two people climbing and they were pretty high. there wasnt a belayer and they were about 20 feet apart and there a was crap load of slack between them. they were both climbing. i was wondering if they were doing it right or what. im totally confused with the pic. sry i cant seem to find it but if i do ill post it
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wv5ten
Feb 24, 2003, 10:54 PM
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Registered: Nov 2, 2002
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was it a hanging belay? did you notice/see any sort of anchor between the bottom guy and the rock?
Its sometimes necessary to belay someone in this fashion, if it wasn't the case then i have no idea
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...les/term.php?alpha=H
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davidji
Feb 24, 2003, 11:24 PM
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trad_man wrote:
In reply to: i was looking at this picture and there were two people climbing and they were pretty high. there wasnt a belayer and they were about 20 feet apart and there a was crap load of slack between them. they were both climbing.
It's simulclimbing. The second must not fall. Oh, and since this is a beginner's forum, I'll mention that this isn't recommended for beginners. It's probably not recommended for anybody, but many of us do it from time-to-time.
If one of the climbers is more likely to fall, he should be leading--a fall by the second can be very bad for the leader. Actually if one is likely to fall, better not to simulclimb.
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kman
Feb 25, 2003, 12:33 AM
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^ and you've gotta be bloody MAD to try it :P
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dig_scott
Feb 28, 2003, 5:19 AM
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simul-climbing... the leader is kinda on normal belay from the second but if he falls he runs the slack out. the two climbers have to climb at the same pace to prevent slack from building up. the secound is belayed off a filed down tibloc, which is very important that there isnt any slack in the line because the tibloc can tear the rope. this is why the two climbers have to be able to climb at same speeds.
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flamer
Feb 28, 2003, 5:49 AM
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The filed down ti-bloc thing is an extremely advanced technique, it is not recommend! If you are a beginning simul-climber you should not be climbing anything were this technique is needed. A better/safer device to use is the new thingy from Yates- I can't remember it's name right now!
The slack that builds up when the leader and follower climb at different speeds can be easily mitigated. The follower need's to belay with a Grigri and manage the slack.
Do not use this technique unless you and your partner are completey solid!!
josh
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ronamick
Mar 9, 2003, 3:11 AM
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Whoa everybody. Let's make one thing clear. Simul-climbing is not a typical climbing techinque, rather a method of ascent which sacrifices safety for speed. For that reason, it is NOT advisable for general use.
Experienced and fully accomplished climbers use simul-climbing as a means of quickly covering easy ground on long routes. We're talking difficulty that is many grades below the level that these people normally climb at. If you are simul-climbing with the slightest chance that either of you might fall, you are incurring an unacceptable risk, and are blowing it.
What's the big hurry, anyway? The reason we are able to climb is because equipment and technique has been developed which allows up to do it SAFELY. Never sacrifice your margain of safety on the rock.
There are occasions where simul-climbing is, unfortunately unavoidable, due to a short rope, routefinding errors, or in the mountains where there are simply no anchors for belays. I can tell you from experience that nothing makes the blood run cold like feeling the leader hit the end of the rope, then yell down "I'm still twenty feet from the belay, you'll have to pull the anchors and start climbing!".
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drumbum
Mar 9, 2003, 3:49 AM
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I've done it a couple of times, it was pretty awsome, knowing that you could die just like that :twisted: but hey, im just like that now,a rent i?
~~Eric
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apollodorus
Mar 9, 2003, 6:27 AM
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Simul-climbing was adapted from conventional snow climbing up moderate slopes. On snow, both climbers move at the same time, and if either falls, both go into a self-arrest position using their ice axes to dig in and stop them. Perhaps the most famous example of why this is dangerous occured on the first ascent of the Matterhorn. On the descent, one of the lower of five or six climbers on the rope slipped and fell. The top, or second guy from the top was able to belay the rope around a rock outcropping, and then the rope broke. I don't remember how many were killed. Edward Whymper was the leader of the party, and was one of the guys above the rock outcropping who made it down alive.
Simul-climbing on rock involves the leader placing pro, and there is usually at least three pieces between the two climbers. This technique is often used for speed ascents by very strong and capable climbers. It's one step safer than free soloing, which is to say, it's dangerous.
If you have to cross dicey 3rd or 4th class rock, simul-climbing can be better than not using the rope at all. As mentioned above, it's only suitable when both climbers are not going to fall. Period. And only if good pro is available. The rope is there in case someone gets hit by rockfall, or something.
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