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gbjr78
Mar 13, 2003, 9:15 PM
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what is the difference? Is it a time thing or routes is it lead? Free climbing? Thanks
Gary
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meshuga3
Mar 13, 2003, 9:19 PM
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Sport is bolted. Trad is not.
(I know there are some trad routes with bolts, but for now this distinction will suffice.)
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calamity_chk
Mar 13, 2003, 9:24 PM
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"sport" climbers climb for the sport of it.
"trad" climbers climb long, enduring and generally frightening ascents to reach an incredible summit. they have ethics that include minmal impact to climbing areas, believe in setting removable gear as much as possible, and can get pretty grumpy about placing unnecessary bolts because they impact the rock and litter the landscape. basically, it's almost a lifestyle thing. .. but that's just my highly biased opinion. guess what my ethics are. :oops:
heh.
amber
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dingus
Mar 13, 2003, 9:28 PM
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Here ya go: (I posted this in a related topic thread and just poached it for reuse here)
Trad = ground up climbing, maximizing adventure and emphasizing strict ethics (which vary from place to place and over time). Usually requires removeable protection.
Sport = top down climbs established to maximize pure difficulty and safety, minimizes adventure and ethics. Usually relies upon fixed bolts.
Works for me...
DMT
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climbingbetty22
Mar 13, 2003, 9:30 PM
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In general, trad climbing involves the placement of removal protection in the rock, such as nuts, hexes, tricams and cams. Sport routes generally already have protection placed for you in the form of bolts that you clip into. Trad climbs tend to follow cracks and other faults in the rock, sport climbs can go up faces where there would be no place to set a piece. Each has it's own virtues, appeals and distasteful aspects depending largely on your own personal preferences.
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calamity_chk
Mar 13, 2003, 9:31 PM
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dingus, good call, man. that's an excellent summary.
PS: both are "free climbing" .. unless you climb like my boyfriend, who relentlessly pulls on his gear. freakin aid climbers. :lol:
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mr_phelps
Mar 14, 2003, 3:14 AM
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I feel like trad climbing is more mental because you constantly have to convince yourself that your placement will hold. I avoid trad climbing. It's scary. I feel like trad climbers that complet a trad complete have completed some epic journey, testing their mental fortitude, strength, and fear limits. I hate it.
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flying_dutchman
Mar 14, 2003, 3:31 AM
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sport climbing is like doing indoor lead climbing in a gym but outdoors on real rock. I dont think there are any ethics involved.
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mr_phelps
Mar 14, 2003, 3:33 AM
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I aggree with you flying dutchman about their being no ethics involved, I am not quite sure what the hell they have to do with climbing at all. I hear about the "ethics of climbing" mostly from trad climbers. Here's another difference between trad and sport, about $600.00, that's about the cost of a trad rack.
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ajoys
Mar 15, 2003, 3:08 AM
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I learned to climb in Jtree. I went there almost everyweekend for about a half season before I ever climbed anywhere else, including indoors.
I remember the first time I went sport climbing. My friend was telling me that I just had to do this 5.9 climb, it was the best etc.. So up I went and all I could think was that this was the easiest 5.9 climb I had ever done and could these bolts be any closer together. I mean, all you had to do was take another couple steps up and clip the bolt. No stopping to fiddle with gear, no run out sections, no thinking about protecting your second, no nothing, just physical climbing.
It is always nice to take that ripped 5.12+ sport climber and throw them on that easy 5.7 slab climb. You know, the 150' climb with like 4-5 bolts on it, 40' run outs and ground fall potential before you clip the second bolt.
I do enjoy sport climbing some times but I wouldn't call it easier or harder, just different.
Trad climbing is very spiritual and emotional, the actual physical aspect of climbing is just one small part.
Trad climbing for me is what my handle says, ajoys.
A Journey Of Your Soul
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curt
Mar 15, 2003, 3:30 AM
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mr_phelps,
In reply to: Trad climbing is generally for people who can't climb above a 5.8 and have stick to cracks where the footholds are generous. Sport climbers represent the elite rockclimbing populaation and climb the most difficult climbs in the world. Generally, sport climbers are a lot cooler then trad climbers. Actually, just forget about ethics and ignore what I just said, just think bolt or no bolt. Understand, that you will be picking a side.
I think it would be most instructional for you to come climbing with some of us "trad" climbers who post here. We are actually in the process of arranging a Joshua Tree get together. Please be aware that the ante may begin at a level somewhat above the 5.8 difficulty level that you believe defines trad.
How about we start at 5.11 trad, and move upwards from there? Are you game?
Curt
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agentoffortune
Mar 15, 2003, 3:39 AM
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I think that a climber should be well rounded. Traditional, sport, bouldering, bigwall, aid, and even a little bit in the gym.
Edited for drunkeness.
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crack_head
Mar 15, 2003, 4:02 AM
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sport= bolts :shock:
trad= gear :shock:
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mr_phelps
Mar 15, 2003, 6:39 AM
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Hey relax, did you read the end of my post where I said, "ignore what I just said"? I was kidding. Someone posted a message like three up from and they were talking about the ethics of sport climbing, or lack thereof. Actually I could probably not climb a 5.11 on my best day, especially outside. Trad climbing is great, it's just too expensive for me, right now. Also I wanted to address the wierd hostility that exists between trad and sport climbers which has become obvious in this post. Sorry if I pissed anyone off.
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agentoffortune
Mar 15, 2003, 7:08 AM
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Sorry about that. Had a few drinks. Still having them (cheers!). I'm just tired of people thinking that they are better than others. I still think people should try all kinds of climbing. Drink up and forget my posts!
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foeslts16
Mar 15, 2003, 7:57 AM
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I think dingus really summed it up in his post. All the other bs is irrelevent.
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enigma
Mar 15, 2003, 10:28 AM
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[quote="climbingbetty22"]In general, trad climbing involves the placement of removal protection in the rock, such as nuts, hexes, tricams and cams. Sport routes generally already have protection placed for you in the form of bolts that you clip into. Trad climbs tend to follow cracks and other faults in the rock, sport climbs can go up faces where there would be no place to set a piece. Each has it's own virtues, appeals and distasteful :?: :?: aspects depending largely on your own personal preferences.
Distasteful :?: :?: Not nice to say that in reference to climbing!!!
_____________________________
It's not how high you climb, or how far you fall, but how hard you fight to get back up!!
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freudian
Mar 15, 2003, 1:44 PM
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Sport climbing isn't WAY COOLER than Trad. Sport climbing is climbing routes that cannot be naturally protected. The moves are often more gymnastic-like, the holds much smaller and routes overall harder in technicality... BUT trad is much scarrier, costs more for a rack, more interesting if you are adventurous and envolves more gear and brains, plus a cool-head.
If your climbing 1000 feet within a few hours, or a day, on trad... you gotta know how to set anchors properly, protect everything and not drop your cams and nuts.
If your doing the same, but only on a bolted sport route, all you have are quickkdraws and a few slings. not much to it... there are rap stations on each pitch, most likely. All you gotta worry about is climbing that route, not where your gonna stick your next nut or cam (...or hex, tricam, etc.).
Andrew
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pywiak
Mar 15, 2003, 4:05 PM
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It looks like the younger generation draws the line primarily with the protection system in use (fixed vs. non-fixed). Old farts (like myself) see it more as different styles/techniques (ground-up, no-falls, no-dogging vs. train hard and safely work it into kinesthetic perfection). It's really an arbitrary distinction, not worth fighting over, but always grist for animated discussion.
As I get older, I find the description "well-rounded climber" more and more fitting.
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freudian
Mar 15, 2003, 4:27 PM
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pywiak:
Those are good points.
re: All-around-climbers...
I'm sure eventually most climbers will try bouldering, trad, sport and aid. They will eventually put it all together on a huge wall/route like the nose.
Ive only been climbing about 3 years now... so at the moment, I've only tried sport and trad. I am currently doing mostly trad and am more interested in trad, but sport is great, cause they are harder routes and easy to clip (usually).
ANdrew
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