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epic_ed
May 13, 2003, 4:53 AM
Post #26 of 42
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Wow! Nice to hear of someone who actually missed the tower on the way down. Sounds like the dude in the report didn't fair nearly as well. I hope some details come out about what he tried to place that failed. I have gear for everything (offsets, hybrids, sawed-offs, head kit...tiny leprachauns)so I'll find something that works.
Rappeling those last four pitches in a water fall -- dude hs some freakin will to live. It's been mentioned, but that is exactly where and how Joe Crow died. 30 ft off the deck.
Ed
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bigdan
May 13, 2003, 5:56 PM
Post #27 of 42
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In reply to: It's probably a mute point, anyway.
It's certainly not a mute point! You are all making quite a bit of noise about nothing.
Did you mean moot?
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epic_ed
May 13, 2003, 6:18 PM
Post #28 of 42
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"Moot" it is. Correction made. Ignorance duely noted. ;-)
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livinonasandbar
May 13, 2003, 6:39 PM
Post #29 of 42
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Well, good lawd, you two! Y'all hush and be nice, now.
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spiffdog
May 13, 2003, 6:53 PM
Post #30 of 42
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We are all very quick to jump on someone for getting a rescue when they were unprepared or just stupid, but we never seem to recognize those who do it right. This guy did it right. A broken pelvis is one of those injuries I would be content to "hang and wait" with. Let alone passing knots in a waterfall in the dark with such an injury. Truly commendable and worthy of the route.
-Spiff
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alpinestylist
May 13, 2003, 8:18 PM
Post #31 of 42
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As far as asking for beta on this route...it got McTopo'd a long time ago, and all the beta is readily availible.
If you require more beta than is on one, you probably shouldn't climb the route.
I hate beta. Do I read trip reports for Jolly Roger, Disorderly Conduct or any other obscure nasty? Heck yeah.
Internet climbing schmack is good to delude reality while not climbing. If you seriously garner knowledge here and technique off the internet your doomed. None of our worthless rants teaches as much as two pitches on the Captain.
Let Darwinism reign...
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epic_ed
May 13, 2003, 9:31 PM
Post #32 of 42
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In reply to: None of our worthless rants teaches as much as two pitches on the Captain.
True, true. Looking forward to it. I have all the beta I could possibly need, I'm just trying to learn something from someone else's mistake.
There are plenty of TRs out there (both of Karl's are excellent), lots of topos (I've had the McTopo for over a year), and I've heard several first hand accounts. But when I start planning for a climb it just becomes all-consuming. I can't get enough. I think about it every day -- every hour of every day. Read about it (often the same TRs) when I should be working...well, if I actually had some work to do. I look at all the pictures I can find of the route, and I look for pictures of different angles of every pitch I can find. I started racking about a month ago. I've already bought all my food for the climb, and I have all the water bottles lined up and clip-in loops are all attached. I even have my freakin clothes picked out. I'm a damn mess and could really use a good therapist. Or maybe I just need to go climb it. That always seems to work best.
One thing I can't plan for is the uncontrolable. I'm really not looking for more route beta on this thing, but it would be insightful to learn how he fvcked up so I can hopefully avoid the same mistake. It's the same thing when someone bails from a climb I'm interested in doing. Why'd they bail? Wrong gear? Weather? Small sack? I'd like to know so I can prepare to overcome the same obstacles that defeated them. I understand I'm probably wired different than some (well, OK, most). A lot of people don't want much more beta than "there it is". That's cool. That's part of their experience. Visualizing and planning for the route is a part of mine.
Ed
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lambone
May 13, 2003, 10:46 PM
Post #33 of 42
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Ed,
I'm not sure this rambling belongs in a thread about an unfortunate accident, but since it's deteriorated into a advice pro/con discussion about beta etcetera...here I go.
I diagnose that you are exactly like me, every spring the wall bug creeps into your skull and digs around so much that it consumes your whole brain. The symtoms you've listed are common and I can relate all two well...my grades in the Spring time equaly suffer. Hell I'm sitting here thinking about El Cap now when I should be working...
Let me offer a bit of warning from my own experience. First of all, are you soloing? Because if not, all of your energy spent plotting this route is only as good as the amount your partner has invested. It is the "weakest link" theory. You may be fully prepared to-the-max for this route, to the last detail, so much that you don't need to even look at the topo. So much that you could place the gear blindfolded...That's great, but if your partner isn't as dedicated as you and wants to bail, then it's all worthless. This has happened to me...several times. My initial reaction was to blame my partners for not being as prepared as I was, when in the end I realized that I could only blame myself.
Second, now that you've dedicated so much time to plotting this climb, it is going to be that much worse IF you do have to bail for some unforseen reason (which is allways a possibility). This can be mentaly crushing. I had this experience on the Trip last year. I wanted the route sooooo bad, but my partners didn't. We bailed, and I reached a level of depression that I have never known before. I learned not to blame my partners for this many years ago, but still the defeat just ruined me.
Third, becarefull about making rigid plans. You can have your pitches and bivi's lined out for each day, every Joly Rancher counted for each minute at each belay. But if something doesn't go as planned ya gotta roll with the punches and deal with it without getting frustrated or upset. I got into a huge fight with my best friend because we were (he was) moving slow and we wern't going to met our schedual on the Zodiac. What good did it do to get pissed about it? None, it only tainted an otherwise awsome climb, for no reason. Luckily were still friends, but he still flips me shit for it.
Anyway, hope ou don't find this condescending...I'm just speaking from what I have learned through failure on El Cap. Personaly I think that my relatively few successes could be attributed to alot of planning and preperation. I think the internet is a great way to get lotl different ideas and then go out and decide what works the best for you. The key is being flexible, and not forgetting to have fun while suffering on the wall. For me, half the fun is in thinking about the climb, and the other half is acctually doing the climb. Good Luck bro, hope to see ya down there!
Matt
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epic_ed
May 13, 2003, 11:07 PM
Post #34 of 42
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No offense taken at all. Good points. I was just discussing the same thing via a PM with someone. Here were my comments:
In reply to: I don't think it's easy to grasp someone's motivation for wanting to do a climb from what they post on-line. Topping out on Zodiac would be excellent, and I fully plan to do so. But it's so much more about the damn journey. If all I can manage is one pitch a day and I end up bailing from the Black Tower, then I really don't care! Those seven pitches will mean just as much to me as if I had topped out. I'm after the learning experience, plain and simple. And seven pitches of hard-earned aid on El Cap is just as significant to me at this point as getting to the summit. I'm prepared for spending 6 to 7 days on El Cap, and come what may, when I get done I'm going to be a different person than the one who left the ground. Maybe I'll get to the top; maybe I'll have learned a lot more about what it takes to reach the top of El Cap; but it's not going to be effort wasted.
It's all about the fun and the challenge, and very little about the expectations. And, yes, I am soloing it. For some of the exact reasons you mentioned. I climb with several very cool people who I unhesitatingly trust my life with. But this is one that I need to do by myself, for several reasons.
And in case anyone is concerned about my "one pitch a day" comments, I'm very aware Zodiac is a trade route (I'm certainly not planning to climb only one pitch a day). I'll do whatever makes sense for the conditions and circumstances. I'll gladly accomodate anyone who wants to pass, and I realize my plans may need to change based on a number of factors that limit my time frame for making an attempt. I do have several other alternatives.
Ed
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cantwinifyoudontplay2003
May 14, 2003, 11:35 AM
Post #35 of 42
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Registered: Feb 24, 2003
Posts: 75
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Just wanted to say good luck. You should have a great time.
It's a nice route you should end up with more gear than you start with.
If you are kind of not sure though it might be wise to do something easy like say South Face Washington.. Sorry I have no beta for you it's just been too many years.
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epic_ed
May 14, 2003, 4:28 PM
Post #36 of 42
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In reply to: If you are kind of not sure though it might be wise to do something easy like say South Face Washington.. Sorry I have no beta for you it's just been too many years.
I hear ya. And I certainly would if it were my first wall. Or my second. Actually, it will be my fourth by the time I get to the Valley. I'll probably still get my ass handed to me, but I'm aware of what kind of challenge I'm getting myself into.
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iamthewallress
May 14, 2003, 5:32 PM
Post #37 of 42
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Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
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From Thor Lancelot Simon on Rec.Climbing....
In reply to: I just heard from Cam. Evidently a fixed copperhead just above the top of the tower (her description; I haven't climbed this) blew, and though Scott's next piece down held, a piece protecting a traverse lower on the pitch pulled from rope tension, lengthening the fall somewhat. She rapped first with the bag and most of the gear, followed by Scott. The fracture was luckily very minor, though painful, and they are now back at Scott's home in Cincinnati and he's expected to make a full recovery in several weeks. Scott and Cam are friends of mine from a few years back. I always knew they were tough, but... well, damn! |
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timpanogos
May 22, 2003, 8:37 PM
Post #38 of 42
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Registered: May 17, 2002
Posts: 935
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Ed,
Don't listen to all the noise - go send it! - your turn now - did mine!
P.S. the C2F pitches on the Prow were bomber - we did not need to place any new heads - existing fixed prow was in excellent shape.
Chad
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epic_ed
May 22, 2003, 9:13 PM
Post #39 of 42
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Nice job, Chad! I expect a full report soon. Looking forward to the TR. How far did you get on WF LT? The hump up is a bitch, ain't it?
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moabbeth
May 29, 2003, 5:05 AM
Post #40 of 42
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Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 1786
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I guess this link updates daily so your original incident wasn't on there when I look on it today. However, THIS was. OMG, 2 bison attack incidents in Yellowstone!! I know I'm not supposed to find this funny, but.....:
Yellowstone National Park (ID,MT,WY)
Concession Employees Injured by Bison
The second of two bison incidents to occur in the Old Faithful area within two weeks happened around 9 p.m. on the night of Friday, May 23rd. A 40-year-old Xanterra Parks and Resorts employee was bumped by a bison near Columbine Dorm in the vicinity of Old Faithful Lodge Cabins. The bison knocked her into a tree, then bumped her a second time; she was not gored, but experienced back and neck pain. She was taken by ambulance to West Yellowstone, then flown to Eastern Idaho Regional Medical Center in Idaho Falls for further evaluation and treatment. The first incident occurred at 4:30 a.m. on May 13th when another Xanterra Parks and Resorts employee was walking to the employee dining room near the Old Faithful Inn in the dark without a flashlight. The 50-year-old man felt the ground shaking, then was pushed to the ground by a bison. Although the bison stepped on him and bruised him with its horns, he was not gored. He was flown to Eastern Idaho Regional Medical Center for evaluation and treatment and has since returned to work. Neither incident was witnessed, so it is not known if the bison were bulls or cows. Bison are more dangerous than they first appear; they can weigh up to 2,000 pounds and sprint up to 30 miles per hour. It is against the law to approach within 25 yards of them.
[Submitted by Public Affairs, Yellowstone NP]
I didn't know those bison kicked so much ass :lol: !!!
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lambone
May 29, 2003, 5:39 AM
Post #41 of 42
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Registered: May 1, 2003
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oh hell yeah, they look all docile 'nshit, but they are some grumpy sons 'o bitches...kinda like rhinos.
every year some tourists get mauled trying to snap some close photos.
too bad they get shot when they try to leave the park. isn't it crazy how us humans attemt to impose our own political boundries upon nature!
just like how this goddamn fuckin web site trys to impose it's own stupid bullshit censorship on us sprayers...it's a crimb I fuckin tell ya... :roll:
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climbhigher
Jun 3, 2003, 9:47 PM
Post #42 of 42
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Registered: Dec 6, 2002
Posts: 224
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I was on a route to the left of Zodiac when that accident happend. I don't know there names, but it was a guy and a girl. They both did a great job in getting off the route by themselves, i.e. joining there ropes together and passing the knotes to get to the ground. He sounded like he was in awful pain when YOSAR was putting him in the litter. Never heard anybody in such horrible pain before. AS for us, we bailed off the route which was ZM because of me. I was truely scared to lead the next pitch on ZM the next morning. It definitley was over my head. It snowed and rained for the next week after that. There was two groups of people on Zodiac who sat out the week long strom in there portaledges. gotta hand it to them. Pretty hard CORE. AS for my partner, he went threw a few more partners on ZM and then said fuck it and soloed the thing in good time. He just gotta off Sea of Dreams with another dude. and he soloed the Trip for his first El Cap in a strom sometime at the end of April. And now is heading up the Reticent wall. He's a damn good aid climber from Austriaila. CHEERS.
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