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taraus_de_bull
May 12, 2003, 8:32 PM
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What company do you think has the worst rubber?:
What company makes the worst shoes?:
What model is the worsest?:
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geckoee
May 12, 2003, 8:46 PM
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In reply to: What company do you think has the worst rubber?:
In reply to: What company makes the worst shoes?:
In reply to: What model is the worsest?: |
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shivers86
May 13, 2003, 12:20 PM
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Boreal rubber sucks (I don't know about alot of those other cheap brands like Bufo) Boreal makes really nice shoes (mostly) but their rubber is really holding them back. It really just can't compete with the other rubbers out there.
My friend has Bufo shoes, they're falling apart.
The worst model in my experience is the Boreal Diablo. They're my gym's rental shoes. They just flat out SUCK!
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spinnerstyle
May 13, 2003, 1:03 PM
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I have a pair of Boreal Matrix shoes and they absolutely suck. The rubber can't stick to anything and the fit is less than satisfactory. I just ordered a pair of Anasazi Velcro and those gaurantee to be much better. :lol:
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taraus_de_bull
May 13, 2003, 7:55 PM
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why is boreal rubber not good?
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aarong
May 13, 2003, 8:01 PM
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My vote is Boreal, too.
Go figure. I thought it was just me.
I don't care how awesome the shoe looks or fits - Boreal rubber sux.
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mbond
May 13, 2003, 8:10 PM
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I'd say the same. I have the Boreal Zen, the fit is great but the rubber totally blows. I slip off of everything. Oh, wait, that's just because I suck. Nevermind.
I like my Sportivas a lot better.
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curt
May 13, 2003, 8:16 PM
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I wonder where Boreal went wrong. Since they invented sticky rubber in the first place, you would imagine they realize how important this aspect is to a good climbing shoe.
I agree though--the junk they call "Fusion 3" rubber is terrible.
Curt
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climbs4fun
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May 13, 2003, 8:23 PM
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I agree. Boreal rubber is horrible. First thing I did with my Boreals was have them re-soled with C4 Stealth. But the shoes fit well...
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jkarns
May 13, 2003, 8:27 PM
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You folks have forgotten an important point:
The stickier the rubber, the faster it wears away. I love stealth just as much as the next guy, but the stuff just DISAPPEARS off the bottom of my shoes. I usually go with the La Sportiva rubber for a good compromise in stickiness/durability. Plus the Muira cannot be beat for fit. I don't know why, but I've never worn a 5.10 shoe that acually fit my foot right.
Josh
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chingas
May 13, 2003, 8:38 PM
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Skill and experience are really the issue here. I've seen climbers send just about anything, WEARING just about any climbing shoe made.
Look-no one denies that technology has given today's climber some pretty intresting options in the way of gear. But gear is a tool, and a tool's potential is only fully realized in the hands(or feet) of a capable craftsmen.
First look for fit. Then climb. The rest is elementry...
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curt
May 14, 2003, 3:25 AM
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In reply to: You folks have forgotten an important point: The stickier the rubber, the faster it wears away. I love stealth just as much as the next guy, but the stuff just DISAPPEARS off the bottom of my shoes. I usually go with the La Sportiva rubber for a good compromise in stickiness/durability. Plus the Muira cannot be beat for fit. I don't know why, but I've never worn a 5.10 shoe that acually fit my foot right. Josh
This point you are making is not strictly true. C4 rubber is both hard and sticky. I think it represents the best compromise of stickiness and holding up that I have seen. The harder formula of Mad Rock rubber seems to have similar properties.
Curt
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melekzek
May 14, 2003, 4:37 AM
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In reply to: I have a pair of Boreal Matrix shoes and they absolutely suck. The rubber can't stick to anything and the fit is less than satisfactory.
If a shoe doesn't fit your shoe shape it wouldnt matter whether the rubber is sticky or not.
Its all in the fit!...
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mbond
May 14, 2003, 4:51 AM
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In reply to: Skill and experience are really the issue here.
Not really. The dude asked what we thought is the worst shoe. So that's what we were talking about.
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chingas
May 14, 2003, 5:14 AM
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My point is that the "worse" shoe is subjective. I think fretting over which shoe is the "stickiest" is simply a waste of time.
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climbsomething
May 14, 2003, 9:27 AM
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Rubber: Boreal, and this is not jumping on the bandwagon. The rubber really does suck. It gets glazed and slick very quickly, and skates right off the rock. I don't care that it being "harder" than the others means it lasts longer... that also means it doesn't yield so well. It's clunky in addition to being slick. Like Curt said, I don't understand how the company that invented sticky rubber doesn't have sticky rubber anymore...
Craftsmanship: All of the major shoe companies are good, but 5.10 is notorious for its random, poor quality control. Delamination, chunks of sole/rand spontaneously separating from the shoe, are common maladies. When the shoe is brand new, it's great, but it just tends to fall apart before its time.
Model: well, that's too subjective. I think despite rubber and such, every model fits somebody, but certainly not everybody. Plenty of people are madly in love with the La Sportiva Katana or the obiquitious Anasazi Velcro, but similarly plenty of people just can't wear them. (Not quite as easy to answer as "BEST climbing shoe" :P )
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daisuke
May 14, 2003, 1:58 PM
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I have to agree with people here, the worst shoes are made by boreal, partly because the rubber sucks very badlybut mostly because they hype up their shoes to be really good. bufo shoes aren't all that bad, I know a lot of people that own them without too many regrets and almost every other person owns them in germany.
boreals cost twice of what a bufo shoe or other similarly priced shoes cost and perform no better. I once tried on BRAND NEW boreal stingers and got on a smearing route... forget it, slipped all over the place, the fit was nice but the shoe is none the less useless and not worth the extra bucks.
Sportiva on the other hand... best shoes out there
D
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danl
May 14, 2003, 2:40 PM
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In reply to: I once tried on BRAND NEW boreal stingers and got on a smearing route... forget it, slipped all over the place, the fit was nice but the shoe is none the less useless and not worth the extra bucks. D
The stingers aren't exactly a smearing oriented shoe and any brand new shoe will be too still be a touch too stiff to smear well
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tucsonalex
May 14, 2003, 3:40 PM
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This is a little off the topic, but I am just sticking up for my Boreals. I have a pair of Aces and a pair of Zens. They fit great and I rarely have problems slipping off of holds. Oh yeah, Boreals last FOREVER. If the shoe fits wear it. I hate sportiva clifs, those have got to be the clunkiest climbing shoes ever made.
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freudian
May 14, 2003, 3:57 PM
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Boreal makes very nice shoes. The rubber isn't slippery. I dunno what other people are talking about. I've had 2 pairs of Laser2's and a pair of Stingers. Those shoes are freakin awesome. Certainly so, they are not trad shoes (the two i've mentioned) which means you shouldnt expect to be smearing your way up a climb, but rather carefullyl placing your toes where they should be, as if they were fingers.
As far as 5.10 Rubber and shoes go... I have found they fall apart. Where the toe sole part of the rubber meets the rand rubber, they come apart and peel off. That's right annoying for a 150$ pair of shoes. Im talking about the 5.10 Newtons specifically. I also have found that they are less sticky than my laser2s and stingers.
So... stickyness depends on what your trying to do. If your on limestone or indoor on a woodie, you try and smear with your foot, you probably will slip with a 'sport' climbing shoe which has a downcambered toe and is highly asymetrically shaped.
I swore up and down at my Newtons when I first got them cause I kept slipping where I should not have and didn't with my laser2s.
Freud
In reply to: I have to agree with people here, the worst shoes are made by boreal, partly because the rubber sucks very badlybut mostly because they hype up their shoes to be really good. I once tried on BRAND NEW boreal stingers and got on a smearing route... forget it, slipped all over the place, the fit was nice but the shoe is none the less useless and not worth the extra bucks. D |
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csoles
May 14, 2003, 4:07 PM
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The talk about Boreal is somewhat moot now that the longtime US distributor was forced out of business by the Spaniards lousy busy practices. The new distributor is known for selling golf shoes and cheerleading supplies (for real) and has no prior involvement in the climbing world. You can still order them cheap through Europe but you'll have a hard time finding stores in the US willing to carry Boreal anymore.
OTOH I still train in Boreal Zens because they fit and the poor rubber forces better footwork.
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kevlar
May 14, 2003, 4:21 PM
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I agree with all the above :D
an like the last thread stated...my boreals are a far cry from my 5-10s but they make me work harder when I am just training
Rock on
John
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whitefingers
May 14, 2003, 4:48 PM
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My first shoes, from Avue (with a slash above the u). Tore em out in a month. The shop I go to said they will quit carrying the shoe because almost all of them have been returned.
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curt
May 14, 2003, 5:33 PM
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freudian,
In reply to: As far as 5.10 Rubber and shoes go... I have found they fall apart. Where the toe sole part of the rubber meets the rand rubber, they come apart and peel off. That's right annoying for a 150$ pair of shoes. Im talking about the 5.10 Newtons specifically. I also have found that they are less sticky than my laser2s and stingers.
And to say that your Lasers are stickier than the Newtons with C4 is bizarre. Perhaps you are getting better friction from your Lasers because the shoe is softer--the Newton is pretty stiff. If so, this is a technique issue--and not related to the shoe.
Curt
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taraus_de_bull
May 14, 2003, 7:13 PM
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chingas: subjective, yes, so is grading so is alot of things. Thats not the point here.if you think "fretting" over shoes is a waste of time, then don't read the post.
back to the real point...
As far as sticky rubber, i find it hard to believe one rubber will make a significant difference then the another.
Compareing hardness of rubber, i can understand, that makes a difference in edging.
but do you really feel the sticky the rubber the better you climb? I've climbed in 5.10's, mad rocks, and a boreal ninja just once on one problem. but all in all i can't say i've notice a huge difference other then the hardness. i want to get a of boreals just see if they really do suck, maybe that will shoe me the difference. i guess i need to experience the crappy rubber to understand it.
The fit of a shoe i feel has been very important to me. I think thats the most important thing in picking a shoe, but not the only factor. i can't see buying a shoe solely on its rubber.
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