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ramylson
Apr 29, 2003, 8:33 PM
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Back ground information first. I originally hurt my shoulder about three years ago while working at a climbing gym. I was large rolled pad by myself to put it away. In the process of bringing it up on end, I'm almost positive that I tore my rotator cuff. Dull pain the majority of the time while the shoulder was in a relaxed position, with a lot of pain and limited mobility when my arm was raised. Did the proper thing, and took a lot of time off. I eased back into climbing (like I wasn't going to climb anymore :roll: ), making sure that I do proper warm-ups, as well as balance out the muscles by working the muscles in opposition. Here's the deal though.. last week I returned from a bouldering trip to HP40 (if you haven't already been there.. do so). Because we only had a few days, we ended up climbing hard for three days straight. Since my return, I've noticed that I have a dull pain in my shoulder again, with some pain when I raise my arm. I haven't taken any real time off, but I did take a complete week off when I returned just to allow my body to heal from three straight days of climbing. I notice when I went to my local crag this weekend, that the pain persisted when I started climbing, but gradually resided.
So, I'm looking for some insight on this. What can I do to minimize the pain? Are there any area specific exercises to help my shoulder/rotator cuff? Basically, any help anyone could give. It would be greatly appreciated.
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shisho
Apr 29, 2003, 10:02 PM
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It doesn't sound like a tear, because you would know for sure. Your hand would feel numb in places and you'd lose almost all your strength in the target area of the muscle you think you tore.
I think you might have tendonitis or bursitis. I personally have bursitis and it is a dull pain with cracking and popping, but after about a half a year of taking it easy when it acted up I only notice the occasional popping now.
Two things you'll want to do. See a orthapedic that specializes in sports medicine, and if it's not torn do proper strength training on it.
Warm up (physically raise your temperature 1-2 degrees), stretch thouroughly and properly, lift light weights with each group of shoulder muscles (start with the girlie weights and work your way up slowly, it's not important to pump lots of weight with your shoulder). Do straight raises (make sure your elbow does not move) and for low impact and to avoid agrivating the injury try just holding the weights with your shoulder at the point of contraction. When you sustain this effort you really give your muscle an endurance work out. The stronger the muscles become the less stress on the joints, connective tissues, etc.
Oh, and don't forget the sometimes mundane warm-down (warm up again if you've cooled down) and strectch again to complete the workout.
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watersprite
Apr 29, 2003, 10:06 PM
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you might want to have a sports-oriented doc look at the arm. Tell him what you do - climbing/swimming/kayaking all can lead to rotator cuff injuries. It's quite a small muscle, and in the inside of the shoulder, and an MRI is the only way to see if it is torn/separated.
You don't want to mess with this - you'll eventually tear it, and after surgery, you'll be off months with rehab.
have you tried icing it down after workouts? use Advil before you feel pain - you can take Advil every day to keep swelling and inflammation down.
The shoulder is the most mobile joint in your body - it moves 7 diff. ways and is easy to injure.
THere are theraband exercises you can do and the doc will probably send you to physiotherapy - it's bite the bullet now, strengthen the ligament (I think it's a ligament) - anyway, cool it now, or wait out a much longer recovery period.
the b/f just had surgery a couple months ago, hasn't been able to climb for 8 months, and still is doing rehab. and the killer thing is, you can have a couple surgeries but if you keep on abusing it, eventually there is nothing left to reattach to the shoulder joint. Then you're looking at a total joint replacement, and metal detectors will go off when you walk by them.
not to be a bummer - but lay off now, get thee to the doc, or have a really long recovery period later.
do a "search" on Rotator cuff - there are a couple of other people on this site who have had first hand experience with the same problem.
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watersprite
Apr 29, 2003, 10:10 PM
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"It doesn't sound like a tear, because you would know for sure. your hand would feel numb, etc."
that is not true, it can be torn and the only pain is felt on raising the arm above the head. What you describe, the numbness, is more from a nerve being pinched, and the "ping" or pins and needles feeling can start at the wrist, little finger (de Quervain's), elbow, or neck.
the only way to be sure of what is going on is through an MRI.
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shisho
Apr 29, 2003, 11:36 PM
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That's true, minor tears don't pinch nerves or severvely weaken your shoulder, but minor tears aren't treated surgically. (So getting an MRI is probably a waste of time) I tore a few muscles (one in the forearm climbing and it bothered me for a year) and now years later it's like I never tore it. Proper training and resting it when signs of pain set in (as in "my shoulder is getting sore" stop immediately) are the only things that can be done, because surgery would do more damage than good.
Icing only helps when the injury is fresh (bruises and damaged blood vessels, etc.) and reduces the swelling and pain. Afterwards heat is better to help circulate blood. In fact if it isn't constantly painful I wouldn't recommend icing, because shoulders have a poor blood supply and because of that they heal very slow. So you want to heat your shoulder to expand the blood vessels to get as much blood flow as you can during the recouperation and strength training.
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sean34
Apr 30, 2003, 12:33 AM
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yo man,
it does matter if you torn the cuff or not at this time in the game...theres nothing you can do about the initial injury now. I used to be a meat head till a rotator cuff injury spoiled my hopes on winning mr. universe.
here's what Id recommend...
First do a search on the net for "rotator cuff exercises"...theres a ton of good stuff out there. If you like, buy the book "7 minute rotator cuff solution" its money...has all sorts of good exercises. You need to at least get cuff stronger.
Second, stretch 3x a week...nothing crazy here. Once again a search on the net should give u idea.
thats should get you started...if your really pissed look into Active Release Techniques (ART). its a deep massage that breaks up scar tissue.
also, since you were pulling hard for 3 straight days im saying you have a case of "biceptal tendinitis." bicep ligament is inflamed causing pain in the shoulder. solution...just some anit inflamatories.
hope this helps..
Sean
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watersprite
Apr 30, 2003, 12:43 AM
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I'm not a doctor, Jim!! :oops:
no, but I think the original poster needs to see a doc to find out what he has first, and then he can make an intelligent decision about treatment.
re: surgery - if it is a tear, surgery would help. It's not a big deal -they use microincisions. In fact, with a tear, physical therapy won't do a bit of good - it won't just reattach.
speaking from (a friend's) experience - trust the doc, get more info. and don't believe everything you read on a bb.
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watersprite
Apr 30, 2003, 12:44 AM
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getting an MRI can RULE OUT a tear, so it is not a waste of time. especially if you have Kaiser -how about that $10 surgery?
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katydid
Apr 30, 2003, 11:54 AM
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I thought I'd torn my rotator cuff, but it turned out that I had rotator cuff tendonitis. A lot of the same symptoms, but much quicker recovery time (although I'm still paranoid that the shoulder's going to separate on overhung stuff -- it does, periodically). To risk sounding like a broken record, get it checked out. It might not be as bad as you think.
And stick to your physio religiously!
k.
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shisho
Apr 30, 2003, 8:19 PM
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Yep, see a doctor. That's in my first post. Just letting him know what some posibilities are. My muscles never reattached, but the idea was to strengthen the muscles around it so they can pick up the slack, because even a micro incision is still and incision. Some muscles overlap each other so you have to cut through other muscles to get to the damaged one or the damaged part.
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pt
May 29, 2003, 1:19 AM
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I'm a physical therapist in a sports medicine clinic. We treat alot of rotator cuff injuries. Most of the advice you are getting on this site is CRAP! It is impossible to self-diagnose a shoulder problem. If the pain is persistant and interfering with your day to day activities, i.e. - sleeping, putting a T-shirt on, tucking your shirt in etc..., you should pay the money and see an orthopedic surgeon who is Fellowship trained in sports medicine (ask before you make the appointment). If surgery is not indicated (and you better hope it's not - the surgery is a big deal especially for a climber), then you should begin an active rehab program under the guidance of a well trained therapist. Stay away from the large corporate PT clinics and seek out a private practice specializing in Manual Therapy and Sports Medicine (again ask before making the appointment).
If the pain is only present with certain movements or with climbing and lifting activities, and is not present at rest and not interfering with your daily activities, you may have some luck with a graded exercise/stretching program on your own. Concentrate on scapular stability (seated rows, bent rows) and gentle rotator cuff specific exercises. Avoid Military presses, heavy bench presses and dips. If you have aching pain after activity that persists for several hours you have inflammation and you should use ice. Avoid anti-inflammatories for longer than 10-12 days in a row- they will inhibit the healing process and potentially cause other problems. To improve blood flow you should perform aerobic exercise daily. Massage to the upper shoulder and scapular muscles pushing torward the tip of your shoulder will help stimulate blood flow to the rotator cuff Tendons. Cross friction massage directly over the inflammed tendon for 2-3 minutes is also helpful for blood flow and to limit scar formation in the tendon.
Good luck.
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watersprite
May 30, 2003, 5:25 PM
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are you saying my advice was CRAP???
what advice do you have for the b/f? He has numbness in his fingers after his Kaiser surgery. I tried - I really did - to get him to go to a Sports Medicine doc. But he went for the cheapie surgery, and while the rotator cuff injury was fixed, he says he'll "never climb again" because of the numbness. He can't hold his entire body weight with one hand.
I can't either, but it doesn't affect MY climbing, which is just beginner level.
I guess my question is, how bad is rotator cuff repair for climbers and do you think he really will "never climb again?" I don't mind if he never free solos again, but it would be nice to have him climbing again so we could share some rock time.
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mreardon
May 30, 2003, 10:26 PM
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I can't hold my bodyweight with one hand either, but it hasn't affected my climbing time. The best advice is go see a specialist. It's expensive, but it needs to be done. I blew a rotator and got pushed out of climbing for 2 years. Plenty of therapy later, got back in and have been pretty much non-stop for several years now. Go see a specialist, don't take advice from this board.
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pt
May 30, 2003, 11:28 PM
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No, I'm not saying all of your advice is crap- just some of it! Heck, most of my advice is probably crap. It all depends on the injury, and the only way to get an accurate diagnosis is to go a see a well trained specialist. I guess the bottom line is you should be wary of any advice, regardless of who's giving it, you get from the internet. I did not mean to single out any individual on this forum.
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rockzen
Jun 1, 2003, 4:15 AM
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Yes... get it checked out. It might not be too serious, but you won't know until you get it checked out.
When you raise your arms above your head a lot (like when climbing), I think it is easy to pinch nerves and cause some irritation in the joint. This can lead to more chronic problems such as tendonitis (among others) if left untreated. It may be as simple as doing some exercises (best prescribed by a doc or therapist) to stabilize and balance the joint.
Good luck and take care...
RockZen
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