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mreardon
May 30, 2003, 10:49 PM
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Better technique, less tape. My partner tapes his hands, I might have a small piece on a finger. Both of us walk away with the same scrapes. And crack climbing isn't supposed to hurt, it's no different than any other climbing. Some moves hurt, most don't. If you want to use tape, go for it, but it won't stop the scrapes or pain, only technique will.
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climber1
May 30, 2003, 10:56 PM
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In reply to: Tape is such a crutch.
debatable
In reply to: I'd rather grate my hands and wrists to the bone but be a toughass about it than slather my hands with tape any time I go near a crack. |
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brutusofwyde
May 31, 2003, 12:29 AM
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In reply to: Better technique, less tape.
I use tape a LOT less now that I have two pair of Hand Jammies.
:D
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timstich
Jun 4, 2003, 2:48 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Better technique, less tape. I use tape a LOT less now that I have two pair of Hand Jammies. :D
Gotta try those hand jammies. Hey, I just remembered that a friend of mine has a pair. Might get to use them this Saturday. I think my tape gloves are still usable. Not too much mold and oily skin scum. Life is good.
-Tim
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indigo_nite
Jun 27, 2003, 11:12 PM
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In reply to: Beginning crack climbers often try to jam with the back of their hand and their fingertips. But you should really be jamming the fat part at the base of your hand...
I s'pose you're assuming the crack is fairly deep to wedge your hand that far in. or you're keeping your hand fairly upright and bracing the fat pad on one side and the back of your hand on the other side.
toe jams seem the most painful for me. still trying to figure out if it's my shoes or me...
I don't like tape mainly b/c it decreases sensitivity to the rock. though that's the purpose, I like to feel the rock shape directly to determine how best to work with it. but on long cracks or long days it seems to make sense to tape.
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flagstaff_climber
Jun 28, 2003, 12:11 AM
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Tape is not for wusses, I use tape and I am not a wus :) Plus it helps keep the hair from growing on the back of your hand. And on top of that, they (old tape gloves) make great doggie chew toys. Something about all that sweat and dirt that drives them crazy !
And if you do decide to walk erect and use tape, the cheap stuff from Wal-Mart (comes in a red two pack) is the stickiest I have found.
Rick
8)
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studs
Nov 19, 2003, 4:09 AM
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Its possible Dick Cilley said that about tape but I know that for most of his life he's climbed em without tape or walked away.
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roadguy
Nov 20, 2003, 10:53 PM
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I remember Yabo saying that the only way you get goobies from crack climbing is that when your jams are set and you move you hands..thats when the body fluids begin to ooze...good technique is what is called for. Move everything except for da jams. That being said, I do find myself taping when I have an old wound thats trying to heal or some bad rock I'm about to stuff my paws into.
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micronut
Nov 20, 2003, 11:13 PM
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In reply to: difficult face climbs or boulder problems (especially dynamic stuff) will shred your tips WAY faster than even a lot of the very hard cracks can shred your hands. josh
so true, as my good friend likes to say, "bouldering in J-Tree can shread your tips in a heartbeat".
but as far as extended trips to J-Tree, I have found tape indespensible, open sore on crystal is the only other option.
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inflight
Nov 20, 2003, 11:49 PM
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All things have been covered.
I'll add my take on Hand Jammies. They are so thick you loose sensitivity to the rock. They don't stick to your hand like tape so your hand will slip around like a foot in a loose shoe. Not a good thing.
Tape is a preference but learn how to do it. I won't try to teach you over the web. Taping around the palm is not a good method. It will constrict your hands and too much tape will also reduce sensitivity to the rock. When taping, protect the thumb knuckle closest to the palm for fist cracks.
One application for the thumbs down hand jam is when the crack angles in either direction. If the crack angles left, left hand jam is thumbs down and vice versa for the right angle. Master this jam and decide what will stick for the given situation.
Eventually, you will end up learning how to jam various sizes other than just hand crack because most traditional routes involve various crack sizes. And when you see the acronym OW, flatter your partner and gladly turn the lead over unless you really like to suffer while making a snails pace.
Stories?
http://rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28229&postdays=0&postorder=asc&topic_view=&start=0
8)
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mattdog
Nov 21, 2003, 12:17 AM
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The original post was way back in May. Does this guy still care?
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petsfed
Nov 21, 2003, 12:34 AM
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In reply to: Eventually, you will end up learning how to jam various sizes other than just hand crack because most traditional routes involve various crack sizes. And when you see the acronym OW, flatter your partner and gladly turn the lead over unless you really like to suffer while making a snails pace.
My partner and I have a joke about offwidth acronyms.
OW: Off Width
OUCH: offwidth you can handstack
OFL (read awful): offwidth foolishly liebacked
The key with off widths is to not simply pull with your arms. It gets you nowhere and is hilarious to watch. The key is leg strength to progress and ab strength to maintain it. A combination of arms and abs will keep you from sliding back down while you move your legs higher. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
The first key to offwidths is to pick which side of your body to cram in there. Some offwidths are splitter, so look for the side with the most faceholds outside of the crack. No good reason to work any harder than you have to right? Some offwidths are small enough that you don't even have to pick a side, you just go straight in, but I'll get to that later. Offwidths in corners are cantankerous beasts, but look above and if it seems like you'll have to clear a bulge or something similar, remember that you can lean farther forward than backward. (in this offwidth, I'd have my right shoulder in the crack, whereas in this one I'd go left shoulder in). If you're offwidthing behind a flake, keep your back to the larger piece of rock (There are exceptions). Also see the following photos: Middle Parallel Space (5.9), Lucille (5.12), Slut (the climb, not the girl, 5.7), Hand Jacker (5.7), Lower Slot Right (5.8+)
So now you know which side to put in, how do you start it? Put the side you picked into the crack and go. Easier said than done, I know.
First for your feet: The bain of my existence is pure offwidth. If there are little crystals, divots, ledges, hedges, or barns I can stand on outside of the crack, I'm a happy camper. Failing that, try heel & toe jams (remember to keep the heel higher than the toe), heel & knee jams, and leg scums. If you can hook your thigh over something in the crack (constrictions work well), you're golden. Suddenly, the Leaning Pillar pitch of the Durrance Route on Devil's Tower ain't so bad. If all else fails, use your outside leg to propell yourself upward by smearing on the wall behind you.
As for the arms: Certain things work, most don't. As always, don't try to pull yourself up with your arms, there's nothing to pull on. Depending on the crack, you have several options. First, stick your arm straight in and get opposition between your palm and your elbow. Second put your elbow into the crack and get opposition between your palm and your tricep. Remember, offwidth technique is a last ditch effort for when all of your other techniques fail. Look for holds inside the crack, or hand jams at the back of the crack.
There is a final technique specifically for those with rock hard abs and a sense of adventure. So called "Leavitation", its a combination of knee jams and hand stacks. Hand stacking is the jamming between a hand and the rock. Be creative and whatever sticks, holds. As for moving up, jam both knees in the crack, clench your abs and remove your hands from the crack. Sweating yet? Now replace your hand stack, then move your knee jams up. Rinse and repeat until you pump out or reach the anchors.
And remember, its bad form to puke on your belayer!
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leinosaur
Mar 24, 2005, 10:43 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Eventually, you will end up learning how to jam various sizes other than just hand crack because most traditional routes involve various crack sizes. And when you see the acronym OW, flatter your partner and gladly turn the lead over unless you really like to suffer while making a snails pace. My partner and I have a joke about offwidth acronyms. OW: Off Width OUCH: offwidth you can handstack OFL (read awful): offwidth foolishly liebacked
I knew immediately I should have just tried to swim up it, or chicken wing, or something - and went on to work plenty of fisty cracks over the next two days but shying away from offwidths for a bit. There's that 8+ and another 10c fingers-to-offwidth with a wide-ass crux I really want to get.
There's even a "5.6" offwidth elsewhere in the Wichitas that had me scratching my head, at first. It'll be a good venue to practice my stacking, chickenwings, etc. before heading back to the .8 & the .10c - most of which is fingers-widening-to-fists. I'm told our Okie granite's a lot like Yosemite . . .
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iclimbtoo
Mar 24, 2005, 10:58 PM
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I'm with Moabbeth on this one...
Tape becomes a crutch. You aren't a wuss for using tape, but once you use it, you won't go back. then all then sudden you run out, or forget your tape and you have to climb barehanded. Well, I would rather have calloused up hands, conditioned and toughened to the climb rather than forget my tape and try to suffer the pain of non-conditioned hands.
It's all preference, but mine goes to no tape.
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jaybro
Apr 1, 2005, 5:24 PM
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Gott second Stud's take on that Cilly quote, I can't remember ever seeing Dick use tape. But that does sound like soemthing he would say if he did!
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pt
Apr 20, 2005, 10:40 PM
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The new climbing mag has an article on Vedauwoo, Seems like all the hard climbers are using tape in those photos. A while back there was also some pictures of Stephanie Davis on Free Rider and Tommy Caldwell on Dihedral Wall, both were using tape. The best crack climbers in the world are using tape - I think I will too!
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jaybro
Apr 21, 2005, 2:05 AM
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man, you don't want to go by what those vedadudes do.
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takanhase
Apr 21, 2005, 6:32 AM
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In reply to: I'll add my take on Hand Jammies. They are so thick you loose sensitivity to the rock |
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tenesmus
Apr 22, 2005, 8:14 PM
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In reply to: I'm with Moabbeth on this one... Tape becomes a crutch. You aren't a wuss for using tape, but once you use it, you won't go back. then all then sudden you run out, or forget your tape and you have to climb barehanded. Well, I would rather have calloused up hands, conditioned and toughened to the climb rather than forget my tape and try to suffer the pain of non-conditioned hands. It's all preference, but mine goes to no tape. |
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112
Apr 22, 2005, 9:17 PM
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In reply to: Unfortunately I started climbing at Smith ( well depending how you look at it) and was thus conditioned for a while to think the only climbing that existed was bolted!
Man, then you sure missed a lot of great climbs at Smith. Zion is right there in the middle of Morning Glory Wall (not the best example of a jam crack though). :oops:
The best is at the end of the day when your whole back of your hand is numb. :D
I can climb hader with tape (more sticky/not so sweaty - sometimes the crux of the climb is keeping my hands dry), but I prefer to try it free first before I go to the aid techniques. :P
Ken
Ken
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davidorchard
Apr 22, 2005, 10:14 PM
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In reply to: Karl Baba (all bow to his greatness) taught me the single most useful tip for climbing hand cracks. Beginning crack climbers often try to jam with the back of their hand and their fingertips. But you should really be jamming the fat part at the base of your hand...most times, you should be able to relax your fingers and wiggle them around inside the crack.
this man speaks the gospel.
the way to make you hand fat so that is sticks in the crack is to place your hand in the crack and move the base of you thumb toward your pinky (sounds wierd, but give it a try) when done properly hand jams feel so good (unless the rock is eating you)
several other people have mentioned not to move your hand after it is in the crack. that too is very good info. try to rotate at the wrist instead of moving your hand.
as far as thumbs up or down, just play with it and you will find your own preference and it might change with each crack.
jam on brother/sister?
edit: WTF. i totally replied before i checked the date of the original post. why the hell is this back on the front page? because people like me post, right?
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angry
Apr 24, 2005, 3:54 PM
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HELLO PEOPLE, BURT BRONSON HERE.
I HAVE TAKEN OVER FSHIZZLE'S COMPUTER, HE IS CURRENTLY IN THE BASEMENT WITH THE GIMP.
AS THE LAST BASTION OF SERIOUS CLIMBER, I MUST TELL YOU THAT YOU MUST CLIMB CRACKS IF YOU ARE SERIOUS. MOST OF YOU ARE WEAK, THOSE WHO ARE NOT, ARE PROBABLY STILL WEAK. IF JAMMING CRACKS HURTS, I SUGGEST YOU GO HOME AND CRY. I CANNOT MAKE THE PAIN GO AWAY FOR YOU. SOME OF YOU ARE SO TREMENDOUSLY WEAK THAT YOU PAY A MAN CALLED A "DOCTOR" TO STICK A FINGER IN YOUR ASS ON OCCASION. IF YOU TOLD THIS "DOCTOR" THAT YOUR SOFT LITTLE HANDS HURT WHEN YOU CRAM THEM INTO STONE, HE WOULD TELL YOU STOP CRAMMING THEM INTO STONE.
I AGREE WITH THIS ANALLY FIXATED WEAKLING, YOU ARE TOO WEAK TO CLIMB CRACKS. YOU SHOULD STOP BEFORE YOUR SALTY TEARS KILL ALL NEARBY VEGETATION.
IF ANY OF YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE STRONG ENOUGH TO BE A REAL MAN, YOU NEED TO GET 3 THINGS TO BEGIN THIS JOURNEY.
#1 PENTHOUSE FROM THE 70'S
#2 A 12 PACK OF pbr AND MARLBORO REDS
#3 A 16 WEEK SUPPLY OF PEANUT BUTTER
NOW GO CLIMB A CRACK YOU LITTLE SISSY, WHEN THE PEANUT BUTTER RUNS OUT, YOU WILL NOT BE SO WEAK.
BURT
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superbum
Nov 21, 2005, 1:01 AM
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ANGRY-
I probably would have been mad at you years ago when I originally posted this thread....but since then I have done some serious time in the desert and on much high granite. I now turn my head when anyone says the word "dirt," I wear a bandana, eat my oatmeal w/ my nut tool, and often find myself responding to newbie trad posts w/ rage and sarcasm.
Well done. Wanna climb sometime?
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