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markanite
Jul 2, 2003, 8:03 PM
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First of all, thanks for all the help so far!
OK. Is there an exact science behind determining if a rope is to old / used? Some ropes have "so" many falls. This is not a good measurement for top roping obv. because u don’t fall (far). And when I do start climbing without top roping what determines a "fall" (1 foot??? if thats the case I am gonna go broke haha) (or is this all trash and I should use a completely different measurement system).
Thanks!
Mark
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texasclimber
Jul 2, 2003, 8:35 PM
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Look in the forum search. You will find that this topic has been talked about many a times. Personally, I never throw away ropes...I make rugs out of them :lol:
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bakedjake
Jul 2, 2003, 8:44 PM
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now.... and you can send it to me i run a rope recycling facility :D
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scottcody
Jul 2, 2003, 8:46 PM
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You should only climb on a rope once or twice. The thrid time is downright dangerous. Only problem is they are very hard to dispose of. If you want I'll be happy to dispose of it for you. I'll even be happy to pay for the shipping. Just PM me.
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markanite
Jul 2, 2003, 9:03 PM
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Oh really ... wow so nice of u to offer to dispose of my rope and / or clean it! ... only if I could find it. Sadly it has been lost. Well nm. Maybe next decade. 8)
Tell me no body has fallen for this so far ... right?
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billcoe_
Jul 2, 2003, 9:04 PM
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Its not an exact science. With moderate use, stop leading on it in @ 3years. I toprope on it for at least 3-4 years after that, and retire it based on my gut and the fact that my next lead rope is about to become my toprope, which is usually precipatated by a sweet rope sale somewhere. The toprope gets cut up 3 or 4 times and are used as slings to run off of trees for toproping.
I've seen people still leading on ropes they fell on over 200 times. Hell, I've climbed on those ropes when I was younger and broker. But they were 5' falls with 70' of rope out, that kind of thing. The falls that are tested in the lab are fall factor 2's, something very very difficult to replicate in the real world, but possible and usually accompanied by loud screaming and pants wetting. Go to the Uiaa site to see the test. Also, treat your rope per manufactures instructions. If you don't know what that is, go to the beal or Mammutt site and read up on it.
Probably not a bad idea to adopt my philosophy about this: "when in doubt" throw it out. (As in retire it)
Regards;
Bill
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overlord
Jul 5, 2003, 2:20 PM
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actually the testing factor is 1.78, with (im not really sure about the following data) 80kg and ove a few milimeter wide ledge.
i would say retire the lead rope after 3 years and use it for slings, top roping etc.
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marks
Jul 6, 2003, 8:24 AM
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my mate recently dumped his rope.it was 10 years old. i was still taking some big falls on it this winter.
i would go by what it look like rather than how old it is.
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apollodorus
Jul 6, 2003, 9:19 AM
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The four things that kill a rope are hard falls, sunlight, rockfall and chemicals like acid.
TRing hardly loads the rope at all. And the loads are so small, less than 500 lbs, even an old rope is going to be OK. One big leader fall is enough to retire a rope, or at least to TR duty. The fall rating is not how many falls the rope can take in use, but how many as a way to compare it to other ropes. All rope companies say that one big fall is enough to retire the rope (to haul bag or TR or fixed liine duty).
Sunlight causes the nylon to become stiffer, more brittle and less elastic. So, its ability to stretch and act like a rubberband is reduced. If you take a big fall on a rope that's been in the sunlight a long time, it can't absorb the fall and might break. Three years of regular use is commonly used as the limit for a rope that's expected to take lead falls.
One divot from rockfall can retire your rope, right there, for good. If you're lucky, the divot is near the end and you just cut if off there. Otherwise, you get two 25m ropes. If the core has a flexible dent in it, the rope is shot there.
Don't let your rope contact chemicals, especially acids.
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timstich
Jul 6, 2003, 12:53 PM
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Sunlight is often noted as a destroyer of ropes, but besides bleaching out the dyes in them, you would be hard pressed to demonstrate real UV degradation. They happily do a pretty good job of producing UV stabilized materials these days. I read a study done on some 30 years old climbing ropes to test for UV degredation. They dissolved the ropes in acid and tested for some chemical byproduct of UV damage. There was little appreciable damage.
Abrasion is the big rope killer besides falls. Wet ropes abrade even faster. Wind-and-water-whipped ropes and slings hanging on a wall abrade frighteningly fast, sometimes within hours. A guy name Matt Oliphant climbed up a fixed static line in Tecolote Cave years ago on a trip I was on. He reached the anchor and gave out a little yelp. Then he gave out an even louder yelp when his light shone on the remains of the rope. Waterfalls over the years had worn the rope down to four core strands. He cut out the bad piece and showed us all.
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timstich
Jul 6, 2003, 12:59 PM
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Hey Appollodorus,
I reread your comments about stiffened old rope and it got me thinking. There's some fixed line at the top of many of the Potrero Chico routes. This rope has been in the weather for a few years now. I rapped one old piece down to a lower station most people just handline on. The ropes are very stiff now, but I'm thinking the continual wet-dry-wet-dry cycle is to blame rather than UV damage. That stiffens the crap out of caving ropes that rarely see the light of day.
In any case, I would be interested to see any links to controlled testing of UV damage if anyone has any.
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