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ninjaslut
Jun 25, 2003, 7:56 PM
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I was out climbing on a soggy new England crag that takes ages to dry out, and got my 10.3mm wet rope a little damp in puddles and mossy rock faces, etc. Considering that it was purchased within 2 months, how much damage can this do to a rope? I store it in an unsealed plastic bag, so it (eventually) dried out.
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overlord
Jun 25, 2003, 8:13 PM
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you should really hang your rope in an open, well ventilated space protected from direct sunlight to dry off. i dont know. probably not much, but dont keep a wet rope in a plastic bag anymore. bad karma. and chack if it smells like something rotten. if it does... i wouldnt climb with it. sorry. but if it doesnt smell its probably OK. and, remember, drydrydry.
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lazide
Jun 25, 2003, 8:31 PM
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When a rope is wet it is weaker, but after it has dried off it is 100%. Water won't cause any permanent damage to your rope. It is generally best to hang it to dry in a warm, dark, well ventilated place as it dries out faster, but nylon is very resistant to fungus and the like either way.
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rrrADAM
Jun 25, 2003, 8:42 PM
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Not damaged at all by getting wet. Don't store a wet rope in a plastic bag though... Stinky !!! Dry it out first as described above.
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thrillseeker05
Jun 25, 2003, 8:43 PM
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In reply to: When a rope is wet it is weaker, but after it has dried off it is 100%. Water won't cause any permanent damage to your rope. It is generally best to hang it to dry in a warm, dark, well ventilated place as it dries out faster, but nylon is very resistant to fungus and the like either way. Where are you getting the info that a wet rope is weaker?????
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kman
Jun 25, 2003, 9:11 PM
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I have also heard from various sources that a rope does loose some strenght while wet. What sources you ask??? To lazy to look it up right now hehe. Do a google search or something, I'm sure you'll find some data.
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overlord
Jun 25, 2003, 9:16 PM
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i believe ICAA did the tests and it was mentioned in a topic that should still be around somwhere... or search the google.
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rrrADAM
Jun 25, 2003, 9:21 PM
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I have seen data showing that some ropes are weakened by as much as 45% when wet. That would be soaking wet though, not damp. Problem is, ropes act like a wick, and litterally soak up water like a sponge when they come into contact with water or even damp surfaces. Unless they are dry treated ofcoarse... But that doesn't mean water proof, it means water repelant. They will still get wet, just not as quickly.
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epic_ed
Jun 25, 2003, 9:27 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: When a rope is wet it is weaker, but after it has dried off it is 100%. Water won't cause any permanent damage to your rope. It is generally best to hang it to dry in a warm, dark, well ventilated place as it dries out faster, but nylon is very resistant to fungus and the like either way. Where are you getting the info that a wet rope is weaker????? UIAA tests conducted last year and report in the June edition ('03)of "Climbing Magazine" regarding rope strength after using a permanent marker to mark a rope (confirmed previous tests indicating loss of strength at the point marked), and wet rope strength. The article indicates test show a considerable loss of strength when a rope is wet. Epic Ed
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thrillseeker05
Jun 25, 2003, 9:28 PM
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I’m not too lazy to look anything up and I already know the answer to that question. Just don’t like people spewing so-called facts without some type of info to back it up. And saying “I heard from this dude on rc.com that if you….” isn’t very good back up.
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robbovius
Jun 25, 2003, 10:26 PM
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Ninja, that wouldn't have been Crow Hill would it? ;-) College Rock wasn't much better monday, but it was OK yesterday...
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ninjaslut
Jun 26, 2003, 3:52 AM
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It would be Crow Hill, although they're calling it Crow Falls this year.
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rocknmedic
Jul 3, 2003, 1:44 AM
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It is true that a wet rope is weaker than a dry one, however CMC rescue did break testing on the effect of foreign materials on rope. Their findings were that for a rope to have significant weakenening it had to be thoroughly soaked clear through. I believe that theirs were immersed in a bucket of water for 3+ hours and then broken. Other finding were that permanent markers had no effect on rope strength.
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micahmcguire
Jul 3, 2003, 3:16 AM
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none. nylon is a hydrophobic material. just make sure to dry it promptly to avoid mildew.
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pico23
Jul 6, 2003, 7:19 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: When a rope is wet it is weaker, but after it has dried off it is 100%. Water won't cause any permanent damage to your rope. It is generally best to hang it to dry in a warm, dark, well ventilated place as it dries out faster, but nylon is very resistant to fungus and the like either way. Where are you getting the info that a wet rope is weaker????? A wet rope is weaker...here is your info (courtesy of singing rock), they seem to have taken it off the site or removed the link, I however, have it saved on my PC. If you'd like the whole document let me know and I will email it.
In reply to: Wet ropes The alarming effect of water content on the dynamic performances of a rope has emerged from the tests: the number of falls held on the Dodero is reduced to about 1/3 of the initial value. Such a decrease of performance has been noted on both new and used ropes, and also on both normal and waterproof treated ropes. (Apparently, the waterproofing additive seems to prevent water from sticking to the surface of the sheath, but doesn't stop water from entering the kernel of the rope.) It is interesting that the effect of water is remarkable also in case of brief immersion (2 hours) and even in the case of a simple splash. Such behaviour is in accordance with literature: the presence of water in nylon greatly lowers its Tg, the Glass Temperature (glass transition temperature of the material). Water acts like a real plasticizer, since it deeply modifies both the mobility of the amorphous part of the macromolecule and the characteristic temperature of mechanical relaxation of the material. This means "in many respects, the addition of water to nylon is equivalent to raising its temperature by a substantial amount" (says literature). In other words: testing a wet rope on the Dodero at normal temperature is about equivalent to testing the dry rope at 70-80 °C, conditions which cause a loss in performance. It has also been noted that the impact force at the first fall with the wet rope is significantly larger (5-10%), as if the rope had become more rigid than the dry one. This could be due to increased fibre-fibre friction as well as to the increased length of the rope. A rope that is already stretched is indeed more resistant to strain, more "rigid". The stretching - average 3-5% - measured on wet ropes just after removal from water is not negligible compared to the strain that occurs in the Dodero test (30-35%). Another unexpected result: the amount of water retained by new ropes is 40-45% of the weight of the dry rope, independent from the waterproofing treatment (maybe the long soaking time - 48 hours - renders the additive ineffective). In the case of a used rope, the quantity of water retained is much greater, about 60%; this is probably due to absorption of water caused by the great quantity of broken filaments existing on the rope surface.... ... In conclusion, a used rope in good conditions, say a rope which can still hold 4-5 falls in the UIAA test on the Dodero machine when dry, might only hold 1 or 2 falls when soaked after a sudden rain fall, as often occurs in the mountains. This may not be too much of a serious problem when climbing in a Kletter-garten, where falls are usually less dangerous and it takes little time to pull the rope down and go home. But mountaineers must demand the maximum security from their rope, even when wet, since it might snap on a rough edge during a fall. This risk is lower when the rope is in good condition. The problem can be less critical when climbing a glacier or an ice-fall, because the ropes are frozen, but even in this case the temperature is very important: if it is goes over 0°C, the rope returns to being wet!
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repete
Jul 6, 2003, 6:13 PM
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Registered: Feb 20, 2002
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Why would you store your rope in a plastic bag? Especially after you got it wet.
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alpnclmbr1
Jul 6, 2003, 8:02 PM
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Registered: Dec 10, 2002
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In reply to: It is true that a wet rope is weaker than a dry one, however CMC rescue did break testing on the effect of foreign materials on rope. Their findings were that for a rope to have significant weakenening it had to be thoroughly soaked clear through. I believe that theirs were immersed in a bucket of water for 3+ hours and then broken. Other finding were that permanent markers had no effect on rope strength.
In reply to: MARKING OF ROPES That marking a climbing rope with a felt pen can damage it was first reported in 1998. The German Alpine Cub tested a Sharpie felt pen (made in USA and sold in Germany), which apparently was advertised for use on climbing ropes (to mark the middle of the rope, for instance). In the tests the ropes were marked and the marked area was placed at the orifice plate in the standard UIAA drop test. Five unmarked samples held 10 - 12 falls, while three marked samples held 6 - 8 falls. This information was published at that time in the Gazette of The Alpine Club of Canada as well as in The American Alpine News. Last year this topic re-appeared on the Internet as well as in Climbing and Rock & Ice. In both magazines the use of felt pens was recommended for the (middle) marking of ropes, while the Internet correspondence centered on the damage. The press, despite being told about the possible damage, did nothing about it. Among the users there was doubt about the sources of the information. Last year two rope manufacturers (Lanex and Mammut) and the German Alpine Club visited this problem again. Various samples of non-dry and superdry rope were tested using a variety of felt pens (Sharpie was not among them). Testing was done seven to 30 days after application. Reduction varied from zero to 50 % in the number of drops held. Superdry ropes generally had less capacity reduction than non-dry, possibly because the saturation was less. However, one particular rope sample had an insignificant increase in capacity for the non-dry rope, but a 35 % reduction for the superdry. This rope, by the way, was the only one, which did not have a reduction in capacity for both the non-dry and superdry sample. Middle markings, which come with a new rope and were applied by the manufacturer, are safe. Do rope manufacturers sell trustworthy markers? Mammut tested the "Rope Marker", a pen sold by Beal. The reduction was 50 % for the non-dry and 17 % for the superdry rope. Mammut tested five days and four weeks after application. The capacity reduction was more for tests done four weeks after application. Sanford, the manufacturer of the Sharpie pens, will apparently not guarantee a consistent product. The ingredients of the pen may vary. There is no "standard" formula for the chemicals that are contained in the markers. The company has also stated that "Sanford will not endorse or in any way recommend use of these markers for rope climbing (sic), and will not accept liabilities, which may arise from its use." The recommendation: do not mark your rope with any kind of felt pen. Water-soluble acrylic paints are apparently safe. No information is available how long they stay on. The bottom line: (for a rope, which would be safe under normal circumstances) there is a risk when the marked area is loaded by a fall over an edge. Who buys lottery tickets?
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