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b_fost
Jul 11, 2003, 4:00 PM
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There was a recent thread about quickdraws being stolen off of someone's projects.
I believe it was called "Stolen Quickdraws on Projects."
Here's my question: let's say I wanted to do a route that has draws on almost every bolt, that is most likely being worked by someone else.
Say I wanted to remove those draws so I could climb on my own. (I have qualms about trusting my life to someone else's gear.
After I remove the draws and climb on the route, what should I do?
Please try not to flame, this is a fair question and I'm not trying to make anyone mad.
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cedk
Jul 11, 2003, 4:18 PM
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I'd say unless the draws look particularly manky then just get over your qualms and climb on them.
You're climbing on someone elses bolts right?
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b_fost
Jul 11, 2003, 4:20 PM
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You're right about the bolts, but I have no choice but to trust the bolts.
I just like to use my own gear whenever possible.
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dingus
Jul 11, 2003, 4:21 PM
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What route and where?
Seriously.
DMT
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evoltobmilc
Jul 11, 2003, 4:21 PM
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If you've decided not to steal them, then put 'em back up.
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leaverbiner
Jul 11, 2003, 4:28 PM
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I would say that when you are done and cleaning your gear, just replace the other person's draws . . . if the route is significantly overhung (the likely cause forneeding to pre=place the draws) replacing the other draws will actually make it easier to clean yours.
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elwapofatty
Jul 13, 2003, 4:55 AM
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Well The way i Look at it. If someone Is leaving all of there gear on the rock and they leave what do they expect for someone not to take it. I can understand maybe one draw if they could not get to the chains but if they leave all of the up it is there own stupidity. :lol:
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cjcalls
Jul 13, 2003, 5:16 AM
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Burn baby burn
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snowrocker
Jul 14, 2003, 3:20 AM
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In reply to: Well The way i Look at it. If someone Is leaving all of there gear on the rock and they leave what do they expect for someone not to take it. I can understand maybe one draw if they could not get to the chains but if they leave all of the up it is there own stupidity. :lol:
Would you take it? :evil:
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gideon
Jul 14, 2003, 4:20 AM
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Why not remove them and attach them all together on the lowest bolt as a message. Do not take them. Do not climb on them. You endanger yourself and the owner if you use their equipment. Then don't know what you did with them any more than you know what they did.
Like a fat chick in a dodgeball game... I'm out
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dnruss
Jul 14, 2003, 4:26 AM
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my question is why would someone leave their draws in the first place....
project or whatever take your sh*t, come back and try again...
if i can get to it...it's mine...and i expect the same thing...thats why i
leave crappy stuff on the wall if i have to bail....its common sense..
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calpolyclimber
Jul 14, 2003, 4:37 AM
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HOLY CRAP GUYS!!!! Get over the quickdraws on climbs topic.......
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dnruss
Jul 14, 2003, 4:53 AM
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im sick of it too..... :evil:
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jt512
Jul 14, 2003, 4:30 PM
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In reply to: my question is why would someone leave their draws in the first place.... project or whatever take your sh*t, come back and try again... if i can get to it...it's mine...and i expect the same thing...thats why i leave crappy stuff on the wall if i have to bail....its common sense..
I'm going to propose that we have a new Forum, the Thieves Forum. All the thieves can discuss their various rationalizations for stealing project draws, and the rest of us will be able to easily determine who the thieves are.
-Jay
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neeshman
Jul 14, 2003, 4:46 PM
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lol, I think a theives forum would do nicley. Can I be the moderator? JK
Ok, I would never intentionally steal someones gear off a climb. Never. But I can only speak for myself. This particular thread as well as the other one which was about the exact same thing does not do anything for the so called Problem of people stealing draws off sport routes. And in my opinion the Problem is not that draws are getting stolen. The problem is people Biotching about their stuff being taken.
Theievery has been around since the beginning of time, and people tend to steal things that are worth somethin, like maybe........ Draws! They are small, lightweight and they go for $8-$22.... EACH!!! Ands that is quite a bit for two biners and a runner. And then when you have 8-12 of these things shotting right to the top of a wall.... with no one around, to some (not me) they look really attractive.
In general the climbing community is full of very nice people who have standards and values. Most people will leave draws if they see them but their are some who take them without looking back. And if you see them at the crag with your draws you can beat them up with YOUR re-acquired draws, and then take THEIRS as they lay unconcious on the ground, and start a very fun/violent game that never ever ends.
"So in conclusion..." I am not condoning and promoting the stealing of "Project Draws" but rather telling all you freakin whiners to shut up about getting your draws stolen because you were too lazy to take them down. Its up to you wether you want to take your stuff with you and know its safe rather than to chance it by leaving it. Try to come back to reality here and realize the world we live in, cause your the only one whos livin in yours.
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jt512
Jul 14, 2003, 4:53 PM
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In reply to: lol, I think a theives forum would do nicley. Can I be the moderator?
Yes, if you can stomach reading their posts, you can moderate. Posts from honest climbers who criticize the thieves will be off topic. Be sure to move them to "Sport climbing." I'll move posts by thieves in the Sport climbing forum into the Thieves forum. Sounds like a nice solution for everybody.
-Jay
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grigriese
Jul 14, 2003, 7:35 PM
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I wonder how much of a relationship there is to a climbers' age and their opinion on this subject.
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leaverbiner
Jul 14, 2003, 8:37 PM
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better yet . . . the poster's climbing ability and their opinion on this thread!
5.12 and up - likely to respect "projecting" and "fixed draws"
5.11 kind of understands it but still doesn;t think it is necessary and recommends cleaning your gear or pulling someone's gear and hangining it on the first bolt - nicely saying you shouldn't leave anything
5.10 and down - leaving any gear is bullsh-t . . . if I can get to it (which I probably can't) it's mine. Stop leaving your garbage at the crag.
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rcaret
Jul 25, 2003, 4:03 AM
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Face it , If you do not place them back you are in fact stealing , You would not want someone to do that to you , Treat others as you would want them to treat you .
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climbsomething
Jul 25, 2003, 4:12 AM
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THIS. HAS. BEEN. DONE. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 Let's all go romp in a shoe thread instead!
:shock: :twisted: :roll:
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sancho
Jul 25, 2003, 6:11 AM
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Man, I can't believe climbers these days, all a bunch of thiefs! :shock:
I was recently with the buds, working a really tough project. I had spent months training for this project and finally, I knew I was ready. The project was rated B12, that's right boys and girls, twelve cold Heiniken keg cans. I moved through the first six pull-tabs without incident. Effortlessly I would say!!! Really, my performance was quite good, I could tell that my coordination had improved greatly during the last couple of months.
After passing the midway point of my project, it happened. Absolute disaster and calamity struck! I was run-out and became distracted by none other than an off route girl and a chicken hold bottle of rum. If only I had known the tragedy of my distraction! I thought for sure, amongst climbers that I could leave my shiny can's sitting in the cooler to wait my return. But no, when I regained my senses, or became thirsty...not sure which, I returned to my abandoned project.
Lo and behold, only one remained. The bastards had stolen all but the most difficult one - it was under the overhanging offwith lunch meat. I was devastated! Since I was on an island, I was forced to accept the fact that I would only attain a B7(+Rum) this night. I was facing a factor 2 depression. I should have brought my screamer backup liquor.
Sadly, I remember a day when one could safely undertake a project of the greatest magnitude and trust that your climbing bud's wouldn't steal from you. At one time, I even managed to pull off a B24 with no interfearance! But now, I guess that day and that sence of community is gone... :cry:
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papounet
Jul 25, 2003, 8:03 AM
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Isn't leaving quickdraw equivalent to squatting the route ?
It is acceptable for me that you leave them for a day, for your many attempts, provided you allowed anyone to have a go.
It is also quite OK for a somewhat longer time if it is YOUR project that you have bolted.
If you do not remove them, is it because you want to "offer the service of pre-clipped routes" to others (possibly preventing them from the true pleasure of full lead), or because you are just lazy and/or conceited ?
I would suggest that instead of purely stealing the quickdraws that are installed, the strong-enough climber pick them up and stack them at the last pre-clipped point.
If the plodder was able to reach this high point , he/she can get them back.
By having to borrow additionnal quickdraw to get his/her back, he/she will probably think about the situation.
Leaving them at the bottom clip, leave them vulnerable to bottom-feeder thieves
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galt
Jul 25, 2003, 9:11 AM
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I'd leave a note at the base that says, "In the future please consult Rockclimbing.com next time you think about leaving your draws on a route... and use the search function because if you start a new topic about this I will hunt you down and beat you to death with an ATC."
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samshafer
Jul 25, 2003, 11:48 AM
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GALT,
:lol: :lol: :lol: GOOD ONE
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jt512
Jul 25, 2003, 3:31 PM
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In reply to: Man, I can't believe climbers these days, all a bunch of thiefs! :shock: I was recently with the buds, working a really tough project. I had spent months training for this project and finally, I knew I was ready. The project was rated B12, that's right boys and girls, twelve cold Heiniken keg cans.
I can't believe that I've never considered the training value in pull-top tabs and screw-off bottle tops. I'm changing my training regimen immediately.
-Jay
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