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b_fost
Aug 15, 2003, 12:47 PM
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OK, I did a search, and surprisingly enough, I didn't find anything on this subject.
I climb in a gym about every 1 1/2 weeks, and climb outdoors every other weekend or so. I also climb in my home cave, practicing my open hand grip as much as possible. I recently ordered a Metolius Gripsaver to balance out the strength in my hand.
My question is; do I need to do anything else to strengthen my tendons? s
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xclimber
Aug 15, 2003, 1:16 PM
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A worthy goal...! I'm no authority, but my understanding is that there's no way to directly strengthen tendons; it comes, albeit slowly, as a consequence of muscular strengthening. I've also researched nutritional means of enhancing tendon health, but haven't found anything solid. There's glucosamine/chondroitin for cartilage, but nothing (that I've found) specifically for tendons/ligaments. Have you experienced a tendon injury?
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climbingjunky
Aug 15, 2003, 2:33 PM
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Train on a hangboard or rock rings and just hang. :P
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crag
Aug 15, 2003, 3:03 PM
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From nutrition stand point check out Google. Try "Pineapple Health Benefits Tendons”. You’ll be surprised to how many hits you get. Apparently, and I'm certainly no expert nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night (couldn't the power was out), but apparently the digestion of raw pineapple produces an enzyme that is good for reducing inflammation.
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b_fost
Aug 15, 2003, 3:11 PM
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thanks a lot for all your input.
In reply to: Have you experienced a tendon injury?
Thankfully no, and I'm being very careful to listen to my body and not climb or train on fatigued tendons.
In reply to: Train on a hangboard or rock rings and just hang
That will be good once my tendons are stronger (6 months or so??), but I try to discipline myself to wait until my tendons feel like new after climbing or intensive training, and adding more intensive training to my 'schedule' would cut into my climbing time.
B Fost
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sidepull
Aug 15, 2003, 4:08 PM
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While it might cut into your climbing time now, strengthening your tendons will prevent future injury, improve performance, and increase potential climbing time in the future. You might want to look at trading some "climbing time" to "training for climbing time."
However, I do agree with your attitude of taking it slow. In developing tendon strength, slow is definitely fast.
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b_fost
Aug 15, 2003, 4:14 PM
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In reply to: While it might cut into your climbing time now, strengthening your tendons will prevent future injury, improve performance, and increase potential climbing time in the future
That's absolutely right. However, I use the climbing time in my cave to strengthen my tendons. I always use the open hand grip, and warm up and cool down before and after.
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jt512
Aug 15, 2003, 4:25 PM
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In reply to: OK, I did a search, and surprisingly enough, I didn't find anything on this subject. I climb in a gym about every 1 1/2 weeks, and climb outdoors every other weekend or so. I also climb in my home cave, practicing my open hand grip as much as possible. I recently ordered a Metolius Gripsaver to balance out the strength in my hand. My question is; do I need to do anything else to strengthen my tendons? s
In contrast (I think) to what others here are saying, there is virtually nothing you can do to specifically strengthen your tendons. All you can do is avoid injuring them while they slowly stengthen on their own.
The problem is that climbing produces great increases in finger strength quickly, and it takes time for the tendons to catch up. Until they do, you can easily injure them.
It sounds to me like you are doing the right things: emphasizing open-hand moves over crimps and training the finger extensors. You might also add reverse wrist curls to your routine to further strengthen the opposing forearm muscles. I also agree that you should avoid the hangboard. I see no reason to use a hangboard for at least the first two years of active climbing.
You haven't explicity stated it, but I get the impression that you are a relatively new climber. You should spend the first few years of climbing climbing to build a repertoire of technique. Your strength will improve as a result of time spent on the rock. Specific finger strength training too early in your climbing career is likely to do more harm, in the form of injuries, than good.
-Jay
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b_fost
Aug 15, 2003, 4:29 PM
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In reply to: You might also add reverse wrist curls to your routine to further strengthen the opposing forearm muscles.
right on. I do reverse wrist curls every 3rd day.
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alpnclmbr1
Aug 15, 2003, 4:33 PM
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What Jay said.
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cracksniffer
Aug 15, 2003, 5:08 PM
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You MUST be motivated if you are using a Gripmaster. Wow.
I suggest you consider your build. If you are naturally beefy in the forearms you should probably focus on strengthening your muscles and tendons through climbing specific training--and be sure you do open-hand grip moves that isolate the fingers (be careful about mono-finger moves early on) if you are planning on climbing on pocketed rock.
If you are lanky with relatively skinny forearms, I think it has been well established that weight training can be an effective means of preventing future tendon injuries. Build some muscle (and tendon) up that you can later (or simultaneously) train for climbing. Do NOT underestimate the danger of one and two finger pockets. They strain your tendons differently than most other holds you will encounter, so build up very slowly and carefully on these. Otherwise.... POP! (I'm speaking from experience)
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b_fost
Aug 15, 2003, 6:07 PM
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In reply to: You MUST be motivated if you are using a Gripmaster. Wow. I suggest you consider your build. If you are naturally beefy in the forearms you should probably focus on strengthening your muscles and tendons through climbing specific training--and be sure you do open-hand grip moves that isolate the fingers (be careful about mono-finger moves early on) if you are planning on climbing on pocketed rock.
That does not apply to me especially, because I'm just about as un-beefy as you can get :lol:
In reply to: If you are lanky with relatively skinny forearms, I think it has been well established that weight training can be an effective means of preventing future tendon injuries. Build some muscle (and tendon) up that you can later (or simultaneously) train for climbing. Do NOT underestimate the danger of one and two finger pockets. They strain your tendons differently than most other holds you will encounter, so build up very slowly and carefully on these. Otherwise.... POP! (I'm speaking from experience)
right on. I do constant weight training, on a low weight high reps schedule
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cracksniffer
Aug 15, 2003, 6:21 PM
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In reply to: right on. I do constant weight training, on a low weight high reps schedule
Actually, you should do the reverse if you want to increase the mass of your muscles/tendons. No more than ten reps, and increase the weight a bit every two or three sessions. I think many climbers will do this for one or two months prior to diving into an intense season of training, especially skinny ones. Like JT512 said, make sure you work the opposing muscles (that you don't use much for climbing) to stay balanced.
I'm no sports physiologist, but there's quite a bit of info out there on how to go about weight training if you want to improve your climbing. Performance Rock Climbing by Goddard and Neuman is one classic source of info.
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b_fost
Aug 15, 2003, 6:35 PM
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hmmm.... i think ill try what youre doing.
i was doing the low weight high reps to build endurance, but a little strength here and there wont hurt
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sixter
Aug 15, 2003, 9:03 PM
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In reply to: I've also researched nutritional means of enhancing tendon health, but haven't found anything solid.
I have recently been researching the same thing, and have found maganese is important to good tendon health. I personally don't believe in suppliments when you can get what you need from the foods you eat. I have been eating blueberries for the maganese. It is too early to tell if it is helping me any, but it can't hurt, plus now I have a fondness for blueberries. :lol:
The only other item I have been able to find is the herb Rue, Ruta Graveolens. The plant is supposed to be good for tendons, circulation, nerves. I do caution that the plant itself is poisonous, and should only be used in a low dosage, and probably shouldn't be used on a regular basis. I personally have decided to stay away from it until I can research it more. When dealing with herbs, I will not take anything until I have researched serveral different sources, know the issues involved, and am sure of what I am treating. Before using any herbal remedies, personal research is needed. I get soooo peeved when I see people telling others "Take this herb, it will cure what ails you." and they don't understand that the herb can do more harm than good when not taken in the proper doses. Grrrrrr...
*Disclaimer* I am not licenced to give out medical information, anything I said is for entertainment purposes only... even if it is true...
-Andreas
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alwaysforward
Aug 15, 2003, 9:41 PM
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So, you're only climbing 4-5 times per month. My grandmother could climb more then that without getting injured. I climb that much per week. Relax, get on the rocks, have fun.
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kennymac
Aug 15, 2003, 10:04 PM
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i find just dead hangs (straight arms) really improve finger strengh, and in turn i felt way less tendon fatigue. 2+2 right?? the only formula i had was no ledge so small i couldn't hang on for less than 3 seconds (risk of injury) and no ledge so big i could hang on for more than 12 sec. (no workout). i would do maybe 4 sets whenever i would walk by my hangboard (couple times a day) and never when my fingers felt too tired.
i had great results with this hope this works for you too!
peace
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jt512
Aug 18, 2003, 5:31 PM
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In reply to: ...The plant is supposed to be good for tendons, circulation, nerves. I do caution that the plant itself is poisonous... ...anything I said is for entertainment purposes only...
I had a good laugh.
-Jay
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b_fost
Aug 18, 2003, 5:49 PM
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In reply to: So, you're only climbing 4-5 times per month. My grandmother could climb more then that without getting injured. I climb that much per week. Relax, get on the rocks, have fun.
??????? Counting the bouldering on my home cave, I climb about 28 to 31 days a month :wink:
sometimes it's only 5 minutes a day, but hey, who's counting?
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antigrav
Aug 18, 2003, 5:59 PM
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I also think 4-5 times per month sounds a little bit too conservative, if you really would like to do more. Myself, I started climbing in June, at the old age of 30++, and have found that I can climb about every second or every third day without problems. Then I boulder for a couple of hours, or toprope with friends for an afternoon/evening (say 3-5 hours.)
From what I have read, the returns will be maximized from just climbing, and climbing on rock, so that's what I'm doing, and it suits me just perfectly! Haven't hurt myself so far, except for some bruises and scratches here and there. I climb until I fall. Always! :-) I just did my second 5.10a (on TR) and I think my progress is just fine.
I don't actively avoid crimps, but then I don't train doing them either. I just focus on "easiest way up" problems, and try to dicipline myself into some kind of warming up.
Anyway, just my 5 cents...
:D
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boulderman
Aug 18, 2003, 6:02 PM
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I eat lots of bananas. Monkeys are strong :roll:
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craggy
Aug 18, 2003, 6:11 PM
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In reply to: ??????? Counting the bouldering on my home cave, I climb about 28 to 31 days a month :wink: sometimes it's only 5 minutes a day, but hey, who's counting?
There is your problem - climb 3-4 times per week not every damn day! Tendons aren't muscle, they take a long time to strengthen, but climbing on a daily basis isn't going to speed the process. Time off is one of the most under-rated training technique.
Craggy
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jt512
Aug 18, 2003, 6:15 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: So, you're only climbing 4-5 times per month. My grandmother could climb more then that without getting injured. I climb that much per week. Relax, get on the rocks, have fun. ??????? Counting the bouldering on my home cave, I climb about 28 to 31 days a month :wink:
Note the poster is 15 years old. This is way too much climbing for an older climber (probably too much for a 15 year old as well), and is a recipe for injury. The Prime Directive is "Never Weight Your Fingers More than Four Days Per Week." And that is a maximum. If you are working at your power limit, you should climb even less often.
-Jay
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overlord
Aug 19, 2003, 6:56 AM
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strenghtening tehndons and what it takes???
it takes time. LOTS of it.
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unabonger
Aug 22, 2003, 9:48 PM
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I have no reference on this. But that never stops anyone else from posting adulterated crap.
It has been shown (note passive voice) that tendons respond better to high repetition, low intensity resistance motions. The exact opposite of what makes muscles grow stronger (uh..low rep, high intensity).
So when starting out or coming back from layoffs, do 30 minute sessions of traversing or easy routes without coming off the wall at less than 40% of forearm contraction. This is ARC (Aerobic Restorative Capillarity).
The authoritative UnaBonger
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