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atg200
Aug 27, 2003, 4:47 PM
Post #26 of 38
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looks scary, time consuming, and like a clusterf*ck to me. if you want something this shaky, use a bungy cord wrapped over a few times for a quickdraw and back it up. a better plan is to go buy a bunch of screamers, or even better a lot of 6 packs of natty light.
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bumblie
Aug 27, 2003, 4:57 PM
Post #27 of 38
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In reply to: I think the detractors on this thread really need just chill out. Sure in a perfect world while climbing we would always have all of the gear we needed right there on our sling. But for those o us that live in the real world sometime you reach down and the piece you need just isn't there. Perhaps you started the climb with the right screamer but an early fall blew it out and now you need another. perhaps you are 5 pitches up and realize you need one or 2 more screamers than you have with you. In either case this is a great solution for what otherwise would be a much scarier situation. regarding issues of sling failure: If you are in a situation were the placement might fail due to a fall. Then not using a screamer simply because it may fail, seems like double trouble. numerous people have mentioned the back up sling which is a great idea. thirdly Spectra...is Dyneema next issue I think the idea of the nylon melting might be a bit off. If anything the perlon cord used to make the prusik would melt first. The runner would be moving through the system in the event of a fall. the sling would only be under the line for a short period of time if any portion is goign to heat up to a dangerous level it would be the cord. But again who cares this is design as a last resort no other option system anyways. So I for one will definitly be placing this in my mental bag of tricks. neat idea sitting duck
All this coming from someone who has two (maybe three) sport leads to his name, and not a single pitch of trad.
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ryanhos
Aug 27, 2003, 5:31 PM
Post #28 of 38
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In reply to: Seems like something that probably wouldn't work, if you're lucky. I bet in a good hard fall you'd come close to melting that sling.... [..] Whole point of a screamer is that the stitches blow absorbing some of the force, or at least reducing the peak load on the anchor. Your setup doesn't look like it would absorb much of anything....
Now I'm not advocating using this setup because I'm a noob and not an aid climber, but if it isn't absorbing any of the force, where is the heat coming from? Looks like "fear" never took any thermo in college.
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granitegod
Aug 27, 2003, 5:32 PM
Post #29 of 38
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I concur with rradam and others who argue that heat/melting is not really an issue here. The sling is sliding, so heat cannot build up. The bachman may get hot, the sling will not. And even a heat weakened sling is probably stronger that that #2 stopper, or you wouldn't be messing with the whole rig in the first place. If you're falling far enough to melt the sling, the placement likely wouldn't hold anyway.
And as for hanging off one arm trying to rig it up, that's just silly. Hang on the placement. If it won't hold body weight, you sure don't want to fall on it, screamer or not. Sure, you won't get the redpoint, but if you're not worried about falling, then the whole discussion is moot. If you climb 5.12, you wouldn't be using improvised screamer's on a 5.9 move.
That said, I think I'll break down and buy myself a couple screamers.
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timstich
Aug 27, 2003, 6:17 PM
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In reply to: Yes you are right, I have behaved like an idiot.
Assuming you aren't being sarcastic, you definitely did the right thing telling everyone about your ideas. Really good idea. I can't emphasize that enough. My friend and I told people about what we were cooking up too, but they were non-climbers and hence could not give any input into the validity of the ideas. And my friend's ideas turned out to be ingenious on the face of it, but looking closer the downside was glaring. When it was all over, there was only me remaining. He didn't survive his experiments.
So do test your setup with dead weights first. It shouldn't take more than an afternoon or two, and it will be fun in itself. We didn't test anything, just thought it up and did it.
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passthepitonspete
Aug 27, 2003, 8:54 PM
Post #31 of 38
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Having just purchased a bunch of Screamers in order to [try] live through my next attempted solo, I am veddy veddy interested in this concept. Screamers are expensive, and I have a whole rack of partly deployed ones!
So here is your Dr. Piton Homework Assignment. I assign this in order to spare myself the bother, and to figure out how well this works.
Somebody go out to the gym, and bring a few of these prototypes. Go stick them on the bolts, and start whipping. Tell us all how you make out. If it works, I'll be buying some of the stuff. I've also put an extra half-dozen six packs on my list.
What we'll need to know is specific number of wraps, and diameter of cord used. It make take a few permutations to determine the Better Way.
Don't be too quick to "poo-poo" this idea. Many of the best innovations in aid climbing and big wall climbing may have appeared ridiculous at first. Who could imagine leaving your ledge up the whole time, or dispensing with a poop tube?
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djmeat
Aug 27, 2003, 8:58 PM
Post #32 of 38
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In reply to: All this coming from someone who has two (maybe three) sport leads to his name, and not a single pitch of trad.
don't make me send yoru project in my flip flops biatch.
lox...our founder.
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brianinslc
Aug 27, 2003, 9:24 PM
Post #33 of 38
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In reply to: Now I'm not advocating using this setup because I'm a noob and not an aid climber, but if it isn't absorbing any of the force, where is the heat coming from? Looks like "fear" never took any thermo in college.
Friction. The bachman tightens and the sling slips through when the load is placed on it. One rubbing against the other provides friction which = heat.
Give yerself a hard injun rub on yer arm. Feel the heat, mr thermo...
I don't like the set up. Sling slidin' against cord aint a good thing. If you've ever seen a demonstration of how fast one can cut thru the other especially...
With the walnut sized brain in my hip, I'd probably rig the sling with a couple of wraps around the biner first, as a way to slow down the load. Maybe with a twist or munter hitch er something like that. Or, just twist the sling up a bunch so when it tries to straighten out under a load, it slows down the fall. Loosen my harness knot (!). Tie a real loose figure nine in the webbing (or two). That or yell down to my partner to give me a real soft catch if I fell...and hope they were belaying with a slippery device (reverso maybe). Anything to reduce the peak load.
Er something...
Would be durn fun to test this set up though...
Brian in SLC
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yosemite
Aug 27, 2003, 11:42 PM
Post #34 of 38
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Copperhead,
Man, am I ever disappointed with you. Why give out only 1/2 of the secret?
In reply to: Save the plastic 6-pack holders next time you buy some good ol' Budweiser (cans of course). Fold the plastic pieces upon themselves such that all of the loops combine into one loop. Clip a biner at either end of the loop. Multiple plastic pieces may be used in conjunction (parallel) to increase activation force or the pieces may be used in series to increase the duration of activation time (and thus energy absorption). Backup with a longer sling. Have fun.
Why didn't you tell 'em to keep the pop tops and reuse them as rivet hangers?
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sittingduck
Aug 29, 2003, 2:41 AM
Post #35 of 38
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Registered: Aug 19, 2003
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I appreaciate all the comments, thanks.
I have not tested this screamer more than I manage with my aiders and it works. It expands and generate friction, therefor it's a screamer and to ME thats better than nothing. Improvise a diper and survive ... hmm ... well whatever.
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apollodorus
Aug 29, 2003, 4:40 AM
Post #36 of 38
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In reply to: Just thinking out loud here but specifying that a nylon sling has to be used might be a good idea. I assume a spectra or dyneema sling would be a bit too slippery. hellclimber
Hey'll Yeah Spectra is too slippery! The most unnerving thing I've ever had happen on a wall was cleaning a pitch with jugs, and suddenly, the rope let loose and dropped me about five feet. It turned out that it had been rebelayed with a klemheist knot tied with a spectra sling to a bomber piece. The spectra webbing simply let the rope slip under load, but not before I'd jugged up about 100 feet on it first.
The rope had been rebelayed because the leader went up, as if soloing, with a Gri-Gri as his belay. He rebelayed the rope to avoid abrasion below a roof. He was short-fixing the pitch, so that I could haul the bags while he led.
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passthepitonspete
Aug 29, 2003, 5:17 AM
Post #37 of 38
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Registered: Oct 10, 2001
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{Dr. Piton looks around sheepishly, remembering the moment with clarity....}
Uh like, sorry mate.....
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timstich
Aug 29, 2003, 2:47 PM
Post #38 of 38
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In reply to: I appreaciate all the comments, thanks. I have not tested this screamer more than I manage with my aiders and it works. It expands and generate friction, therefor it's a screamer and to ME thats better than nothing. Improvise a diper and survive ... hmm ... well whatever.
Sure. It's cool. But if you have a junk biner and sling sometime, give it a go with multiple weight drop tests until it fails. Do wet tests, too. I think you'll be surprised by those. At the very least, if it proves to be hella strong, it will bolster your resolve when you use it. And keep some real screamers on the rack for when you are too fried mentally to chance it.
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