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*thriller*
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Sep 16, 2003, 2:17 PM
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So I had a bit of a problem with my rope this weekend. My partner and I were doing some sport climbing, and after finishing leading a route I lowered off. As soon as I was on the ground and slack was introduced into the rope, it became all twisted up both sides - from me (climber) to the anchors and from my partner (belayer) to the anchors. This wasn't a little bit of twist, but very twisted, more than I had ever seen it before. We were belaying with a Grigri, and I can think of no possible reason for this to have happened. We pulled the rope down and I inspected it carefully twice and couldn't find anything wrong with it. We used my partner's rope for the rest of the day, and i was planning on retiring it this winter, so I'm just going to retire it now, but I still don't know what could have caused this. Has anyone ever seen this before?
Thanks
Ian
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lilcapntravis
Sep 16, 2003, 3:24 PM
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it happens. don't know why, but it happens. last time it happened to me there was a lot of rope drag pulling through the anchors. was that the case in your scenario?
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vertx
Sep 16, 2003, 4:33 PM
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I see it happen all the time if you rappel with a figure 8, especially on a long rap. That can twist the rope in knots. Did you do any rappelling before your climb?
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alpiner
Sep 16, 2003, 4:35 PM
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If a figure-8 twists your rope, it's pilot error not a problem with the device.
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 16, 2003, 4:36 PM
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Did the anchors have single screwlinks on each bolt? It is the most common cause of what you described.
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jt512
Sep 16, 2003, 4:44 PM
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In reply to: Did the anchors have single screwlinks on each bolt? It is the most common cause of what you described.
Yeah, judging by the amount of kinking in the rope, it sounds like it was running through the anchors weird. You can also introduce kinks into the rope if you run the rope across the side of the grigri when lowering (this is true with an ATC as well). When lowering with a grigri, either run the rope over the nose of the grigri or straight back.
-Jay
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tradmanclimbs
Sep 16, 2003, 4:55 PM
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Just hang the rope off of a big cliff and let it unwind. It happends even if you do everything right.
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vertx
Sep 16, 2003, 5:36 PM
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In reply to: If a figure-8 twists your rope, it's pilot error not a problem with the device.
Actually, it is a common problem with the figure 8. The more you use it on a rope, the worse it can get. Read the following links:
http://www.sportextreme.com/Se_Shop/HTC/Climbing/Belay/Belay.page.index.html
http://www.rescue-equip.com.au/REdescend.html
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*thriller*
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Sep 16, 2003, 5:44 PM
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i was using a grigri not a figure 8, so that wasn't it. the rope had been flaked and was not twisted just prior to me leading the route, so it wasn't from rapping; and there were steel rap rings on the anchors and i don't think it was running through them wierd at all. i had thought of most of that stuff already but couldn't explain this, so i'm still unsure of what could have happened. maybe it was running wierd through the rap rings, it's hard to say really, but that's the only thing i can think of.
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lilcapntravis
Sep 16, 2003, 5:44 PM
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In reply to: Did the anchors have single screwlinks on each bolt? It is the most common cause of what you described.
yeah, when we pulled the rope through the screwlinks it got super kinked. what's up with that? is it that the rope is pulled over a small radius?
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 16, 2003, 5:50 PM
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I don't think it is the small radius, it has something to do with how the rope rolls at each point of contact with the links. If you use two screwlinks on each bolt there isn't a problem as the rope runs in a straight line through the links.
lowering off of metolius rap hangers will do the same thing.
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alpiner
Sep 16, 2003, 6:00 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: If a figure-8 twists your rope, it's pilot error not a problem with the device. Actually, it is a common problem with the figure 8.
Nope, it's a common problem that users hold their brake hand off to the side instead of directly below the figure-8. Pilot error. But irrelevant in this case.
Pulling a rope through two anchors that are side by side can also induce twists.
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lilcapntravis
Sep 16, 2003, 6:06 PM
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In reply to: I don't think it is the small radius, it has something to do with how the rope rolls at each point of contact with the links. If you use two screwlinks on each bolt there isn't a problem as the rope runs in a straight line through the links. lowering off of metolius rap hangers will do the same thing.
it will be so worth the expense of adding a couple of more links just for that reason.
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chugach001
Sep 16, 2003, 6:55 PM
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I agree with Tradman - hang 'em off a cliff and let 'em unwind. Also, the more full length raps you do with an ATC or plate the more you'll work them out. It's part of the natural twist in mfg. but over time they'll get right. Using a Munter or (in my experience) an 8 will reintroduce twists.
Good luck,
Jeff
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overlord
Sep 17, 2003, 7:40 AM
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i also found out that fig8 twosts the rope. and i brake with my brake hand BELOW the fig8 not to the side.
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