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zap
Sep 17, 2003, 8:46 PM
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ok, i have a question. i climb with a dynamic rope (multi pitch climbs). my partner wants to bring along a third for one of our trips. i do not own a second rope, however my partner has a static rope. my question is, is it safe to belay a third using a static line, or is this completely unsafe? thanks for any feedback.
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climbsomething
Sep 17, 2003, 8:55 PM
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A fall onto static, including on TR, can be pretty painful (and don't assume the climber won't hang or slip). I would not recommend using a static rope for belaying a third.
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charley
Sep 17, 2003, 8:57 PM
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I'd say it's ok. Just like toperoping unless there is a traverse that could result in a swing.
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phreakdigital
Sep 17, 2003, 9:27 PM
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For toproping only static line is ok for belaying as long as you dont encounter a strong traverse like mentioned earlier...make sure you, and your partners, have the rope work down before you get up the rock.
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kman
Sep 17, 2003, 9:45 PM
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Don't let any slack build what so ever. You don't want your third to be a human funkness device do you?
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kman
Sep 17, 2003, 9:46 PM
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You will be better off using a dynamic line.
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gunkjunkie
Sep 17, 2003, 9:48 PM
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I don't think it is a great idea. There are times on multi-pitch when you can't keep visual contact with the person you are belaying and you might be taking up a little bit slower than they are climbing. So there's a little bit of distance to fall on to that static line. Ouch! I don't like using static line on TR either.
Deirdre
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timstich
Sep 17, 2003, 9:53 PM
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Every time I climbed with a group of three, we simply tied the second into the middle with a butterfly knot and two locking carabiners. The other two climbers are tied into the ends as usual. This works best with a 60m rope or longer.
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zap
Sep 17, 2003, 9:59 PM
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had thought about that, however, not sure if we would have enough rope. some of the pitches are about 100'. would hate to run out of rope.
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davidji
Sep 17, 2003, 10:33 PM
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If you decide you're afraid to belay with it, the 3rd could jug it while 2nd belays the leader. Not a terrible way to go if you rotate. It would suck otherwise--who wants to be "jug monkey" on a freeclimb?
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potreroed
Sep 17, 2003, 11:26 PM
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NO, NO, NO, NEVER!!!! Spend a little money and buy another dynamic rope. period.
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zap
Sep 17, 2003, 11:58 PM
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ok potrereod, thanks for the strong sentiment, but please tell me why.
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coldclimb
Sep 18, 2003, 12:30 AM
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You'd be much safer with a dynamic one.
If it's static, the belayer had better be watching very closely and be very fast. If the climber takes a step up, then slips quickly before the belayer takes that foot of slack in, even that short fall will hurt a bit and shock load the system. It's not a good idea to belay with static rope, period.
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lazide
Sep 18, 2003, 12:38 AM
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:roll: Lots of strong sentiments, but doesn't sound like much experience. Static lines are not steel cable people (though sometimes it would be nice!), just low stretch. Leading with one is of course insanity, but for top-rope they usually provide more than enough stretch (as long as you don't have any signifigant slack out).
Hell, some TR problems I won't do on anything but a static line, as the stretch in a dynamic 60m rope totals well over 20ft with an entire rope length out. (which, with all but perhaps a perfect landing, means serious issues).
The catches will get a little stiff as the rope length shortens, but then so will rope drag and the like that can lead to not having it tight to the follower. As long as it is a straight top rope (no funky roofs/traverses/whatever) and you pay attention, you SHOULD be ok. However it is climbing, and if you screw up you can always screw yourself or your partner over.
Have fun and be safe!
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squish
Sep 18, 2003, 12:42 AM
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Keep an eye on the slack, and belay redirected through the anchor.
Works fine. Like someone said, it's not steel cable.
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mainline
Sep 18, 2003, 12:43 AM
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Static line belay=Death
A fall on a static line, even if the climber is seconding can shock load your anchors, body, etc... If you have slack in the system at any point you are potentially subjecting it to tremendous forces. As was mentioned before this is especially true in situations where you can not see the climber, eg. multipitch routes where slack may build up before you realize it. Be safe and get another dynamic rope.
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apollodorus
Sep 18, 2003, 1:12 AM
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If you can ensure there won't be any slack and that there aren't any traverses longer than a few feet, the static rope is fine. You can agree beforehand that the belayer will always keep tension in the rope as he takes it in, and that he's paranoid about any lapses. Static ropes stretch about 3%, compared to the 12% of a typical lead rope.
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pt
Sep 18, 2003, 1:51 AM
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Buy another dynamic rope. You will need another rope soon anyway if you are climbing regularly. It's only money.
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da5id
Sep 18, 2003, 4:24 AM
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In reply to: human funkness device
thats hilarious...
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drkodos
Sep 18, 2003, 4:33 AM
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T6
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grog
Sep 18, 2003, 5:09 AM
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If your doing any longer routes with three people, have the leader trail the static line, then belay the second while the third jugs the fixed static line (that way the third can carry extra kit in a pack - turn them into a pack mule :D )
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redpiton
Sep 18, 2003, 5:18 AM
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I agree with the majority...Use a dynamic line. There are way too many ways that the third can be injured.
Risky business otherwise.
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slcliffdiver
Sep 18, 2003, 11:28 PM
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For me it's one of those questions, if you have to ask ... You should use a dynamic line. I'm guessing if the people that said it could be okay had read your profile they'd have said different.
BTW for general interest. Not all static ropes asorb energy the same way I couldn't find the now site but there was a site that showed around an 8-9 times difference between a couple of major brands (I forgot with what load. If anyone remembers this site post or pm me please. It was a cavers study with three brands BW II, mammut? and sterling?.
Different belay devices behave differently also.
Most importantly if the people on both ends of the line aren't both experienced it'll be all too easy to end up with more slack than would be fun.
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davidji
Sep 18, 2003, 11:36 PM
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In reply to: BTW for general interest. Not all static ropes asorb energy the same way |
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davidji
Sep 18, 2003, 11:38 PM
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In reply to: If your doing any longer routes with three people, have the leader trail the static line, then belay the second while the third jugs the fixed static line |
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