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lazide
Sep 19, 2003, 1:22 AM
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Lookin' to do some purchasin', and unfortunatly I have no stores nearby that stock any portaledges. (and this will be my first one)
I was originally planning on getting the Fish econo ledge (or even the regular), but I am 6' 1", and it seems too short. (6'5").
The metolius ledges look really nice, but alas I doubt it is $250+ extra nice, at least for me.
I am so far planning on getting the BD sky lounge, probably single because according to them it is longer (7ft), and it is certainly cheaper than most everyone elses ($435 list, as compared to $650 something for metolius).
Opinions? People who have used and abused a couple ledges in a row? Whatcha all think?
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mike_ok
Sep 19, 2003, 1:36 AM
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can't really speak to quality since i don't have one, but check acmeclimbing.com ... they have sales on theirs right now.
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epic_ed
Sep 19, 2003, 1:39 AM
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I have a BD double and think it sucks. It's the most convenient to set up of all the ledges on the market, but that's it's only strong point. Bed fabric is light and I don't expect it to hold up very well; it sags horribly and that with just ME on it; most concerning it the attachment of the tension straps -- they are simply knotted and pushed through a hole in the aluminum pipe rails. See if you can find one to take a look at to get a better understanding, but basically the points of contact that take the most stress while you're on the ledge are only attached with an unprotected, un-reinforced over hand knot. The fly is bomber; made by Bibler (subsidary of BD now). The haul/carry bag also sucks. Just a heavy denier cloth fabric that I also don't expect to last long. Have I emphasized that I don't think this ledge will last long? :lol:
My roommate has a Fish Double Whammy and it's the best value on the market. One of my climbing partners has the Metolius Bombshelter and it is bad assed and well worth the money. Best bed tension of all ledges on the market, and an even better fly than the BD. Theirs is made by Mountain Hardwear and has ventilation at the top and a small window.
The A5 is certainly the Cadillac of the market, but not worth the extra $$ over the Metolius IMO from what I've seen.
All things equal, the Fish is the best value and do yourself a favor and get a double. There's really no point in owning a single unless you're really trying to cut weight. And even then, a single is going to be just as much bulk and nearly as heavy as a double. Might as well get the double and live in luxury when you're on your own and have the option of sharing it with someone else when necessary.
Ed
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omenbringer
Sep 19, 2003, 2:19 AM
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If you are thinking about buying one before the end of Sept check out Shoreline Mountain they are selling the BD and the Metolius for 10% off plus this savings applies to their hualbags as well. If I was going to buy one I would go with the Metolius though, from the ones I've seen it certainly seems to be well thought out. If sizes is a big concern check out Pika's Mondo ledge it is absolutely huge but don't be surprised if it sags. Hope this helps.
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diesel___smoke
Sep 19, 2003, 4:58 AM
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Deleted.
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squish
Sep 19, 2003, 5:11 AM
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In reply to: basically the points of contact that take the most stress while you're on the ledge are only attached with an unprotected, un-reinforced over hand knot.
Have you considered the knot upgrade kit? There are lots of options out there. 8)
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epic_ed
Sep 19, 2003, 5:52 AM
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I'm not aware of a knot upgrade kit, but the point for me is I spent over $500 for this damn thing and would expect an industry leader like BD to have some cutting edge design ideas incorporated into this product. I'm convinced I can build a better ledge (and may give it a shot). I have seen the attachment points of the tension straps on the Metolius, the Fish ledges, and the A5. None of them are nearly as rinky-dink as the overhand knot. Other designs are much better thought out. Now, could I make some modifications to the ledge that improve it's functionality and durability? Sure. And I have. Sewed in some loops of webbing on the tension straps to make clip in loops. This is another feature that other ledge manufacturers have incorporated. For the price of a BD ledge and as a product from one of the freakin' leaders in the industry, I shouldn't have to.
Are you serious about the "knot protectors"? Haven't seem them and cant' find any reference to them on BDs site. I have made some improvements of my own, but would be interested to see what BD has done.
Ed
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squish
Sep 19, 2003, 6:23 AM
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In reply to: Are you serious about the "knot protectors"? Haven't seem them and cant' find any reference to them on BDs site. I have made some improvements of my own, but would be interested to see what BD has done.
No, no, I meant tie your own better knots if the overhand stoppers make you nervous. It was meant to be funny... :wink:
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epic_ed
Sep 19, 2003, 6:33 AM
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:lol: Well, I bit.
And it wouldn't surprise me if BD did come out with some sort of upgrade kit to replace the knot. They oughtta be ashamed.
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punk
Sep 19, 2003, 6:40 AM
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I have a simple proto...any investors... :wink:
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rogueclimber
Sep 19, 2003, 8:55 AM
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I recently, and unwantanly, slept three on a single fish with no damage to the steel tubular extrusions!!! Try that with aluminium and it will buckle. I have to give props to fish for a strong and simple design.
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mrhardgrit
Sep 19, 2003, 11:04 AM
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I would definitely go with the A5 - I have had one for a couple of years and love it. The bed fabric now has quite a few holes in it but they have not ripped one bit more despite spending 30+ nights on it since they appeared. In fact .... I tell a lie .... it's probably way more than that as my girlfriend at University used to sleep on my ledge in my room for quite some time!
I really not too keen on the BD ledges - they are easy to set up, but you can't flag them as well and if your partner hasn't set one up much on a wall ... watch them struggle!
If you can be really patient about getting your ledge at a great price. I got my nearly new double A5 one year for $200 and a brandnew fly another year for $50! Before I had everything i just picked my partners carefully. Every year I have seen at least a couple of ledges for sale at Camp 4.
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lazide
Sep 19, 2003, 12:54 PM
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But what about the actual dimensions? As I mentioned, I am 6' 1" - 6' 5" overall length is way too short! Both metolius and BD ledges are 7' (according to them) - but is the bed size really any different between fish, met, and BD?
Thank for the heads up on the BD ledge quality, BTW!
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alpiner
Sep 19, 2003, 3:16 PM
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Friends don't let friends buy Pika. And BD doesn't make ledges anymore, thankfully. Fish is the best value hands down but is a bit cramped for those over 6 feet. Metolius ledges are very nice and worth the money in the long run. The new ACE ledges are a lot nicer than the old A5s; these rule.
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epic_ed
Sep 19, 2003, 4:24 PM
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In reply to: ...The new ACE ledges are a lot nicer than the old A5s; these rule.
But are extraordinarily expensive:
http://www.ankerclimbingequipment.com/index.shtml
$699 for a single! And then add another $430 for the fly. Outrageous. The A5s aren't that much better than the Metolius and you'll spend several hundred less. Best value on the top end is the Metolius. Best value overall is the Fish Double Whammy. Email Russ for particulars about the length of the ledge. He's very customer oriented and you'll likely get a quick response (well, if he's not out climbing). The Metolius is 7 ft long (2.2 M). I can't remember the length on my BD, but it's at least a couple of inches shorter than the Metolius.
Ed
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lazide
Sep 19, 2003, 4:35 PM
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well, glad I didn't go about buying the BD then. Talked to Russ a couple weeks ago, and he didn't know the length of the BD or Metolius ledges. He thought they where 'bigger', but apparently just not in length. (when I tracked down the numbers, his is quite a bit shorter).
As having my head/feet hanging off either end of the portaledge, or having to scrunch up into the fetal position to fit in with the fly on, is definitly NOT an acceptable thing, guess Metolius it is.
A5 stuff lately (or more precisely I guess, anything from TNF), strikes me as way over expensive 'last years' tech. Anker is just relicensed TNF designs they manuf (according to them), and though they say they have made improvements, it is still WAY over expensive!
Thanks all!
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lambone
Sep 20, 2003, 5:30 AM
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I don't know...personaly I like my BD Double. I've used it on 5 walls now and have allways liked it. I like the ease of set up most of all. Once you've done it a couple of times it goes up in less than a minute, literaly. Then figure about 5 minutes getting the straps at the perfect tension(same with anyledge). The biggest negative is the weight.
I have also use a Fish single and own an old school A5 single. They all sag about the same in my opinion. Tensioning straps don't really do anything. The A5 is nice cause you can flag it, but I have had a hell of a time getting the damn thing to lie straight(flat).
It's like six in one hand half dozen in another or whatever...they all have their strong and weak points. I give the BD a thumbs up, it's bomber.
I'm short, so I don't know about lengths...in the end I don't think it matters, because your ledge will inevitably tilt in the night leving eaither your feet or head danggeling off one side. This is a given, unless you pull out som Magiver tricks.
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hawgdrver
Sep 20, 2003, 6:14 AM
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epic_ed
Sep 20, 2003, 6:39 AM
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"props" = short for "proper respect."
Fogie. :mrgreen:
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hawgdrver
Sep 20, 2003, 7:47 AM
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the_dude
Sep 23, 2003, 4:11 AM
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I own a fish single, I'm 6'1 as well. I have never had a problem with the length. The thing sets up like a charm. But because it sets up so easy, taking it apart is alittle slower. I'll pull one end apart and the other will pop back together. It takes a few nights to get the take down system down. Overall, best bang for your buck.
Cheers!
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rogueclimber
Sep 23, 2003, 6:01 AM
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In reply to: "props" = short for "proper respect." |
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smithclimber
Sep 29, 2003, 2:08 AM
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I'm giving another thumbs up to the BD ledge. Yes, it is heavier and does sag more than many others, but like Lambone said, with practice it sets up very quickly. His six on one hand/ half a dozen on the other comment holds true. You have to decide what is/are the most important characteristics for YOU.
The Metolius ledges are really nice, especially if having the bed tensioned tight is of great importance to you. The cross brace that goes under their ledge also means you get absolutely NO "hourglassing" of the frame when your weight is on it. When I was buying my ledge I was back and forth on the fence about which to get - the BD or Metolius.
If you really want to flag a BD ledge, you can. You just need to bungy/velcro/tape the two end bars together so that the thing doesn't want to collapse when you upright it for flagging.
Hey Ed, not to bust your hump or anything, but pretty much all of your concerns that led you to feel your ledge "sucks" are really not big problems at all.
Just because you THINK that the ledge want last long, doesn't necessarily mean that it won't. Have you heard from many BD ledge owners complaining that the thing fell apart on them? I haven't.
I've never heard of the overhand knots coming undone on anyone's BD ledge. As suggested, you can always tie your own knots if you don't trust the overhands. I haven't found it to be a problem myself. Have you considered how much easier it will be for you to replace your "octopus" (the whole suspensions strap assembly) when the straps are finally gnashed from the camlock buckles or years of UV light? No fuss, no sewing. Just untie the old one and thread on the new one. My guess is that it's more of an "ease of assembly/ease of replacement" measure than BD simply being lazy bastards, but opinions vary.
However, there WOULD be reason for concern about the webbing getting abraded by the holes in the tubes IF it were not for the fact that BD foresaw this possibility and put those smooth inserts into the holes before passing the webbing through. So, those overhand knots are not truely "unprotected" as you claim. Kudos to you for sewing on the extra clip in loops for stuff, I think that's great. That is something they could have done for us. I just use the pockets on the sharkfin dividers and clip my stuff to the loops that are already at the ends of the six straps.
Sorry to get long winded........my point is...... I think your concerns are mostly "perceived problems" than actual ones. Have you truely used your ledge enough to really think it sucks? Maybe you have, but maybe you haven't really put it through it's paces yet also. Just something to think about.
I'm not saying that the BD ledges are perfect. In fact, I don't believe any of them are "perfect". I do have a couple improvement ideas for the BD ledges myself, but since they really don't apply to any of the problems your having, I'll not get into the details.
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epic_ed
Sep 29, 2003, 5:27 AM
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What's up, Wes?! Didn't realize you have a BD, too. I have slept on the ledge a total of three nights (set it up about a dozen times). So you may have a vaild point about time on my ledge. I will be very surprised if it holds up as well as Jeff's Metolius, but we'll see. It really does come down to a matter of opinion -- very true. I stand by my complaints, though. The sag sucks and will only get worse over time. The Fish, no-frills Econo ledge gives me the same amount of sewn runners on the adjustment straps -- zero. It would also give me the same mechanism for adjusting bed tension -- nothing. :P
I can't wait to get back on the damn thing and have you prove me wrong! Believe me, I hope you're right about the longevity of the ledge. I need to work a little harder at wearing it out.
Ed
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apollodorus
Sep 29, 2003, 5:55 AM
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Fish has the best deal out there. For the price of the other guys' ledges, you get the rainfly, gratis. And it's a sturdy, well-made ledge. BD is easier to set up, and A5 might be the Cadillac, but for the money Fish has them beat. The spreader bar of the Metolious might be nice if you are big and heavy; you said you are 6-1.
Whatever type you get, you should seriously consider a double. Even if you aren't going to share it, the extra room vs. extra weight makes the double a better choice. The only time a single would make sense is for speed climbing, or remote alpine walls where that crucial half pound is important. Also, the diagonal of of a 6-5 double is long enough to sleep on, even at 6-1.
When you use the ledge for belaying, a double is nice to lay out the rack, spread out, flake ropes, etc.
My vote is marginally valid, because I've only climbed with someone with the Fish ledge. I used carbon fiber tubes and made my own. Don't even ask about how expensive that stuff is. Or ask how I was able to get filament wound tubing so cheap I made my ledge for about $150, bed and straps and all.
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