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soretendons
Oct 8, 2003, 4:54 AM
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A short forty footer? If that was a V11 it would be bouldering Evilution.
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andypro
Oct 8, 2003, 5:49 AM
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Holy Crap. This thread got this long? The funny thing is that theres almost no substance to it. Just people bitching back and forth.
If you want to solo, jsut do it. but dont brag about it (which seems like what a few are doing here).
What's different about soloing than doing..say..an A4+ or A5 ascent, climbing an R/X trad route, heading to Patagonia in the winter, skiing friggin Everest, drytooling a pile of rocks barely frozen together with 10,000+ feet before you would stop rolling, and on and on and on.
Is any of that impure? I sure wouldn't say so.
I've noticed alot of "noobs" both talking about/asking about and trying free solo after it was glorified in Climbing not too long ago. I'm tlaking people who gym climb at 5.10+ after a month or two and think "theres no way in hell I'll fall on 5.7".
Go ahead. to each thier own. But tell Darwin and Uemura Naomi I said hi. (hows that for history trivia :wink: )
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sharpender
Oct 8, 2003, 7:46 AM
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Cardboard dog In reply to: Right, it's been covered over and over already if you had bothered to read others posts. But just a little something, I know I'm cool as hell, and I know I'm f^&ckin' rad, but I don't need to jazz people on a message board to prove it. Kinda the same thing as spraying, don't cha think? _________________ he daydreams of possums and having sex with a frog.
Are you old enough to spell contradiction let alone define it? Plus ya got weird daydreams. 8)
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sharpender
Oct 8, 2003, 8:01 AM
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Deleted see below :arrow:
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sharpender
Oct 8, 2003, 8:03 AM
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flamer In reply to: Hmmm....since I called you a PU$$Y...does that mean I want to F**K you? COME TOO DADDY, CREAMPUFF!
Guess so, you flamer you! :lol:
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squish
Oct 8, 2003, 12:11 PM
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In reply to: What I am clear about is "talking about it." This is where a climber can talk about any climbing issue. The only dangers are the ignorant and the flamers. However, there are more than enough knowledgeable and compassionate participants to balance that out. This is a forum for the exchange of ideas about climbing. There should be no taboos. If it were a forum about sexuality, masterbation would be an ok topic too.
Sure we can talk about the "issue." We can sit here and bicker about soloing all week. I'm cool with that.
What made me speak out against this thread was what looked conspicuously like spray. Soloing and spray don't mix, and that's the taboo I was talking about--you just don't brag about it. I threw out a few reasons why. Maybe my post was a bit one-dimensional, but there's still a valid argument in there.
Soloing is a worthy issue for discussion, but on the other hand I cringe to see any more of these kind of "my first solo" threads. Cardboard, please read your original post and tell me that it doesn't come across as some kid playing with a loaded gun. You responded later and gave some more depth to your views, but my first impression was that you were looking for some kind of validation. Sorry, wasn't gonna give it to you.
If you choose to solo, it's your own thing. Don't ask anyone to watch and don't expect anyone to cheer you on. Kind of like... (Haven't we worn out that analogy by now?)
I have other questions on this topic that I'd like to lay down, but I just can't spit it all out right now. It has something to do with why I'm blown away with awe reading far out solo stories from Walter Bonatti, Reinholdt Messner, Tomaz Humar or Peter Croft, yet I cringe at reading someone's "my first solo." Is it a double standard? Maybe someone else can make the next cut and figure that one out. I need sleep.
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ajkclay
Oct 8, 2003, 2:33 PM
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:? It didn't seem like spray to me......
Just talking about a new experience doesn't rate as spray, you losers. Spray involves bragging about (and generally exaggerating) your abilities in order to tell others how good you are. Saying "this was my first experience at......., and this is how I felt" doesn't really fit the bill. If you think his mentioning the grade justifies the tag, then maybe you are a little insecure about your own abilities, and how 5.3 fits in with what you can do. It was obvious that he was saying that he chose a grade that he thought was unlikely to be too dangerous for his abilities, thereby indicating that his decision was not overly irresponsible in relation to his abilities. That is pretty much what grades do, tell us whether a route is something that is likely to be within our abilities, or what sort of challenge it will present so that we can make a judgement about the appropriateness of the style we intend to climb it in.
There are a ton of posts along the lines of "my first [trad], [multipitch], [sport], [time]" but no one says that they are spraying or shouldn't talk about it. So why do we not want to hear about someone's first solo?
Here's a thought: People solo, lots of people solo, it is a legitimate form of climbing for many. Now try to keep up, it gets a little tricky here... everyone who solos did it for the first time once. So, why shouldn't he talk about his experience? When can he talk about his experience? Did anyone criticise Dean Potter for talking to Climbing about the first time he soloed Astroman? What firsts can't we talk about? What firsts can we talk about? How many solo ascents should one do before they can even mention the fact that they solo? Does that rule apply to other forms of climbing?
Many of you say that soloing is dangerous, and that people who solo should not expect anyone to watch, or be around while they do. You D!ckheads!! You tell someone that soloing is dangerous, then tell them to ignore one of the most fundamental rules of climbing: Make sure there is someone around just in case there is an accident!
This is a climbing forum, where people come to talk about their experiences climbing.
Soloing is climbing.
Too dangerous to mention?
So cardboard was wanting to talk about a new experience climbing.... I missed the point where it says on this site that soloing is too dangerous to talk about, so we should sweep it under the carpet.
To a large number of people out there climbing is a dangerous and irresponsible pursuit, they would express similar sentiments towards those of you who criticise cardboard about the way you climb and probably think you are being [insert your criticism here].
Now, this thread was hijacked a long time ago by the flamelords. The best way to get rid of them is to treat them like you would a troll: do not feed them.
So, back on track.
Cardboard, that's great to hear about your first solo, where was it, and what type of route was it? How do you feel about it now? Are you looking at any other routes? Did you learn anything about yourself, or your climbing?
:)
Adam
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helmut
Oct 8, 2003, 5:38 PM
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If you need to solo (or climb) to feel alive, then you are already dead.
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sharpender
Oct 8, 2003, 6:28 PM
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In reply to: Cardboard, that's great to hear about your first solo, where was it, and what type of route was it? How do you feel about it now? Are you looking at any other routes? Did you learn anything about yourself, or your climbing?
Well if he had posted these things he would have been talking about his experience, but he likened it to being drunk. Not to good a thing to be soloing. He essentially said it impaired him cause that's what drunk is - impaired. Kids talk like that "Man, I was sooo drunk..."
Yike :roll:
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on_sight_man
Oct 8, 2003, 8:39 PM
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In reply to: Soloing is not something that should be talked about. Do it if you want to, enjoy the feeling, think hard about it, and then be quiet...
Actually, I just thought it wasn't cool to either give or get feedback from complete strangers about it. Cool in the sense of good style AND in the sense of good sense.
Can you get a T rating on a reply? What if I wasn't trying?
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alpnclmbr1
Oct 8, 2003, 9:11 PM
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In reply to: Many of you say that soloing is dangerous, and that people who solo should not expect anyone to watch, or be around while they do. You D!ckheads!! You tell someone that soloing is dangerous, then tell them to ignore one of the most fundamental rules of climbing: Make sure there is someone around just in case there is an accident!
Not having people around is one of the fundamental rules of free soloing.
If you think having someone around to pick up the pieces makes soloing safer then you shouldn’t be soloing.
If you are sure that you are screwed if you fuck up, then you’re less likely to get on something that is over your head.
The other aspect of this comes down to the motivation that leads you to solo a route. Having people around can lead you to want to showboat, I don’t care who you are or what you say, everyone has tendencies to do this. It is basic human nature. It is also something that can get you killed.
Along these lines are the people that solo with gear on for emergencies. If you feel the need for this you shouldn’t be on the route. Also having a rope hanging there or using a sling for a chalkbelt to tie yourself off in an emergency. In most cases, these things can remove a level of commitment and actually lead to more danger instead of less.
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cardboarddog
Oct 8, 2003, 9:36 PM
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Okay, Squish - Yes, I probably should have reread my original post before starting a topic with it, but thanks for recognizing my other posts.
Sharpender, I'm probably several years older than you.
Adam - (hopefully this will also answer SEders other "i'm sooo drunk" post
It was 69 at the Gunks. I will probably definitely solo again, but like you guessed, I will probably not talk about accept to my climbing partner, who would be pissed right now, but hopefully won't be in a few months since he solos. I'm definitely not going to set out to solo. Something just told me to solo the f-in thing so I did. I almost lost my cool, but I just told myself to climb through it and when I did the experience was incredible, almost like being drunk, (high is lame cliche sharpender). Had I gone back down and tried it again I probably would not have made it through without needing to downclimb. Dude it was scary. But hopefully it won't always be.
I love to lead climb. Shit they make ropes why not use them. But I had to do it. Hope that makes sense to the angry nah-saying flamers.
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cardboarddog
Oct 8, 2003, 9:40 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Many of you say that soloing is dangerous, and that people who solo should not expect anyone to watch, or be around while they do. You D!ckheads!! You tell someone that soloing is dangerous, then tell them to ignore one of the most fundamental rules of climbing: Make sure there is someone around just in case there is an accident! Not having people around is one of the fundamental rules of free soloing. If you think having someone around to pick up the pieces makes soloing safer then you shouldn’t be soloing. If you are sure that you are screwed if you f--- up, then you’re less likely to get on something that is over your head. The other aspect of this comes down to the motivation that leads you to solo a route. Having people around can lead you to want to showboat, I don’t care who you are or what you say, everyone has tendencies to do this. It is basic human nature. It is also something that can get you killed. Along these lines are the people that solo with gear on for emergencies. If you feel the need for this you shouldn’t be on the route. Also having a rope hanging there or using a sling for a chalkbelt to tie yourself off in an emergency. In most cases, these things can remove a level of commitment and actually lead to more danger instead of less.
Oh, and I would never ask someone to be around if I was soloing, it has made me uncomfortable to watch only because of what can happen. And besides, how can you climb through something when you're freaked, if you know there;s someone there to bail you out?
Personally, if I was unsure even in the slightest, I would not have done it.
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sharpender
Oct 8, 2003, 9:49 PM
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cardboarddogIn reply to: I have been climbing for about 3 months now. Started off trad @ the Gunks and bouldering at places like Haycock. I love to climb and do as often as I can. I'm also a full time musician in an incredibly lazy, drunken band.
Alright man. Between this and your last post it makes sense that your partner, as you say, will be pissed at you for soloing.
Cardboard, I suspect I have children older than you. Wait, that might be grandchildren - actually only one of those, but still..... Why doesn't your partner, obviously more experienced than you not want you to solo?
Don't get me wrong, I am not against soloing, done a 5.3 myself. Whoopie.
You don't sound ready. Go boulder, go learn to lead, go learn to climb. Do you know what a ninety day wonder is? 8)
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muncher
Oct 8, 2003, 10:49 PM
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In reply to: If you need to solo (or climb) to feel alive, then you are already dead.
Well I guess there are alot of dead climbers around huh. If you can get the rush and feel content playing tiddly winks on the couch then that is great. Most of the climbers I know actually like the idea of being scared and learning how to deal with your fear, that is one of the best aspects of climbing, that feeling of being on the edge but pulling through.
Life does indeed get pretty empty when there is no fear. You can eventually get used to it but deep down you know you have become a boring old fart with nothing more to look forward to than talking about what you used to do when you weren't so lame.
There is nothing like getting yourself into a hairy situation where only you can get yourself out of. Be it climbing, surfing or whatever, those experiences are when I feel more alive than ever.
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helmut
Oct 9, 2003, 8:49 PM
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muncher wrote:
Well I guess there are alot of dead climbers around huh.
Yep my point exactly. I know the "Woah, we almost died there, I feel so alive" type. It's pretty pathetic actually.
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cardboarddog
Oct 9, 2003, 9:18 PM
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In reply to: muncher wrote: Well I guess there are alot of dead climbers around huh. Yep my point exactly. I know the "Woah, we almost died there, I feel so alive" type. It's pretty pathetic actually.
I know right? Dude I f$%kin' hate people who don't see things my way.
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billcoe_
Oct 13, 2003, 4:02 AM
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I tend to take the view that free soloing is crazy. But I'm a chickenshit at heart and thus do not regularly free solo as the thought generally scares the crap out of me. The first time I saw Bacher free soloing (must be 1982 or so) I was stunned by the boldness of it.
However: having said that, my best personal memory of Arapiles in Austraila was the 1300 foot easy class 5 (maybe a 5.5 crux at the top of the pinnacle) free solo that my 2 partners and I did together. Tiptoe ridge. It was F*en awesome. Not having the rope made a huge difference. If my tired legs had been co-operating I would have done it again right after getting back down.
Do it for yourself and don't worry about if you share it or not, soon enough all of us are dead anyway, nobody gets out alive.
Being a chickenshit myself as I said, I don't not want to rush that though, so I try to be very careful.
Edited for clarification:
For some reason, when you type chicken in front of the word shit, the chicken gets dropped. When did Chicken become a bad word? It evens dropps the "C". Seems like it should say Chi*kensh*t at least.
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fear
Oct 13, 2003, 4:23 AM
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I was wondering. I thought you were calling yourself a sh!t.....
-Fear
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tanner
Oct 13, 2003, 5:13 AM
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Calm down about this soloing thing. Its the most normal way to climb.
I remeber the first real rockclimb I did, it was probable no harder than an fir tree but about as tall. I was 11 riding my bike back from flyfishing in a nearby creek when I took notice of this chossy over grown cliff. It was the same cliff I had ridden past many times on my way to go fish, only this time I decided that it had to be climbed. So I stashed my bike, rod and fishing vest at the side of the road and climbed. I didn't "free solo" or "high ball" nor did I "fash", "redpoint" or "onsight." I just climbed, then content in my accomplesment I dusted off my hands and brushed the moss out of my hair and went home to cook up my trout.
Thats what climbing is about I think. The only thing diffrent now is I have a car and a rope.
An empoyer once said to me after inquiring about my weekend and my permanent grin "you climb, your crazy why would you risk you life like that, you could die!" He then went back to puffing on his ciggeret. I said to him "you know I was thinking the same about you, not about climbing but your a little crazy your self" He then snapped "what you think I'm crazy?" I said "well, you smoke, you know thats going to kill you..."
To each there own I supose.
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watersprite
Oct 27, 2003, 10:58 PM
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the problem with adrenaline is that it takes more to get the high. apply that to free solo climbing and eventually you are going to find your limit. Unfortunately, that limit is absolute.
have you ever had the feeling that - oh shit, I almost lost it there - but you get a reprieve. that gives you an adrenaline rush- which you crave, and need more of.... until you reach maximum effectiveness/ run into your limit...
Falling is what happens when you reach your max. potential and nature ups the ante. and free soloing, you don't get a second chance.
that's all I'm saying - go on and do what you want with your fool selves.
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telemarkist
Oct 27, 2003, 11:15 PM
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soloing is all about knowing your limits. I solo often but allways at well below my limits. does this make me crazy, I think not. know your sport, know your limits, know when to keep your opinions to yourself and let others do as they will.
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junaid
Oct 28, 2003, 12:01 AM
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not that anyone will read this since this thread is so damn long, but a 5.3??
I think the approach to my crag is more than a 5.3, and we usually don't rope up for that. I guess I've soloed.
Seriously, though. I think those who solo have got something to prove. Mostly to themselves. I don't need to prove it so I use a rope. To me it is sort of like playing russian roulette (sp) to prove your not afraid. Now I rarely fall on any of the 5.9 climbs I do and not often on 5.10s (5.11c is the highest I've climbed for reference). I probably could solo a few of them, but risking my life, (or my permanent disability) to prove it to myself seems silly.
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ep
Oct 28, 2003, 12:11 AM
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watersprite
Oct 28, 2003, 12:18 AM
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ok...
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