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corpse
Oct 12, 2003, 12:58 AM
Post #26 of 70
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In reply to: The grigri is positively the most unsafe device ever. IN fact, just having one in the same climbing area guarantees a fall. If you have one, you should send it to me, and I will dispose fo it for you.
:lol: I'll take any surplus he doesn't want.
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coclimber26
Oct 12, 2003, 1:11 AM
Post #27 of 70
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The Gri-Gri can and will fail with ropes smaller than 10mm. If belaying on a low angle toprope beware. Similar to your car seatbelt, if you pull it slowly it feeds belt through, if there isn't enough force the Gri-Gri can slip through. to aliviate this use a break hand just like an ATC just incase it slips with low forces. The Gri-Gri cams similar to the soloist and if used properly will work fine for soloing. always tie backup knots in your rope and wear a chest harness....My 2 cents.
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climbing_the_suburbs
Oct 12, 2003, 2:03 AM
Post #28 of 70
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hey all
thanks for the great replys. im really happy to be a member of RC.com and am ever so greatful for this ton of info on the gri gri i havent been climbing b/c of school but im working on a wall in my friends house this weekend and am thankful for the advice... :D :lol: :D
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alpnclmbr1
Oct 12, 2003, 2:05 AM
Post #29 of 70
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I have worn out three grigri’s, worn out to me means when you yank out the climber side of a 10ml rope it will not lock up. These same grigri’s worked perfectly fine when used properly for actually catching falls at the same time they failed that test, nevertheless I did trash them anyway.
In reply to: ( (petzl reply)) In reply to: .....we must takes many variables into consideration. I think what you are hinting at is the question of a static belay, implying that a tuber style belay device like a Reverso, ATC, or Sherriff is somehow dynamic, or absorbs energy when braking, more so than a Grigri. The false notion that this lack of energy absorption somehow makes the Grigri less safe or suitable for only certain types of climbing (sport) is a thought, unfortunately, that many climbers have. Well this idea is just that - a false notion - meaning not true. Any tuber style belay device locks up as sharply and quickly as the Grigri if properly used.
As far as petzl’s claims about a grigri’s more static catch not being a significant factor: there is a bunch of fairly hard data that suggest it can increase the impact forces 40% or more. (a side note: doing a belay jump is rarely possible in multi pitch circumstances.)
REI belay device tests: 40 to 50% increase (they tend to overstate the amount of rope slippage in a normal belay device:
http://www.somat.com/applications/articles/rei.htm
A Beal site that shows up to an 80% difference between a tube and a grigri, with a high impact force rope.
http://www.impact-force.info/anglais/impact4.html
some numbers from from the UK:
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/sports_science/abstracts/climb99/wnachbauer1.htm
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madcowrockclimber
Oct 12, 2003, 2:15 AM
Post #30 of 70
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i think you seem to be a tight wad and need to understand that good equipment will cost a little coinage 8)
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madcowrockclimber
Oct 12, 2003, 2:24 AM
Post #31 of 70
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I have been using a grigri for 3 years and have absolutly zero complaints except that if your climber is less than 50lbs he/she may not have enough wieght to come back down.(in the indoor gym i go to i have had this happen many times before. in b-day groups for example a 7 yearold kid get to the top of a 40' high wall and is to light to come back down so we sent somone up on a lead climb to pull him/her back down again.)
If you use it proporly in a controled environment the grigri can be used as a "self-belay" device but should not be made a habit of. I have heard stories of someone having trouble with a grigri but it turned out the threaded the device improporly.
if the $80.00 price tag is your concern just remember that if you want good equipment you gotta blow a little coin to get it.
caddilac $99
grigri $80
mojaves $120
trip to climb the nose of el-cap priceless :lol:
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jono
Oct 12, 2003, 3:43 AM
Post #32 of 70
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meh, i use ATC for belay.
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bigwalling
Oct 12, 2003, 4:25 AM
Post #33 of 70
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I use the gri gri to solo aid and I have used it for roped soloing on free climbs. I find it to be very safe if it is threaded properly. But you would be an idiot to thread it wrong!
I have taken a 50' fall on it while solo aid climbing. I've had some people say that it doesn't catch in head first falls(or at least not as quick). But that fall was head first and caught me just fine. So I think it is very safe if you know what you are doing.
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granitegod
Oct 12, 2003, 5:06 AM
Post #34 of 70
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In my limited experience with Gri-Gris....I was once dropped 25 feet at a climbing gym by a very experienced, responsible, attentive belayer using a gri-gri. He was squeezing the device to feed rope quickly when I popped off without warning while attempting to clip, and it did not lock until he let go. My feet were about 3 feet off the deck. Was this the belayer's fault, or the device's? Probably a little of both.
To me, the gri-gri's inherent fault is that it encourages lazy belaying. Lazy belaying is unsafe belaying. Yes, if used properly, it is safe, just like an ATC, a figure 8, a munter hitch, or a hip belay.
As for self belaying with a gri gri...... if you hadn't wasted $70 dollars on a belay device and $18 on another device to rap with, you coulda got a Soloist which was designed specifically for self belay. At most climbing areas, admission is free. Safety, however depends on quality gear, used as intended......and quality comes at a price.
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granitegod
Oct 12, 2003, 5:07 AM
Post #35 of 70
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Oh, and another thing...... "gri-gri" is the stupidest name for a freakin' piece of gear ever.
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hema
Oct 12, 2003, 11:59 AM
Post #36 of 70
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Here's a good source for info of the safety of a GriGri:
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/safety/tech/articles/grigri.pdf
Done for the British Mountaineering Counsil (BMC).
Conclusion GriGri is safe, but not foolproof.
As for the "death modifed GriGri" (aka GriGri for lead rope soloing), again not foolprrof and might not stop a fall if inverted.
And remember when belaying a leader with a GriGri NEVER EVER keep then cam open with your thumb, use your pinky or lock the cam open by pressing the GriGri from the sides.
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climb_plastic
Oct 14, 2003, 2:51 AM
Post #37 of 70
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In reply to: Yes, if used properly, it is safe, just like an ATC, a figure 8, a munter hitch, or a hip belay.
If used correctly it's way safer than the ATC, figure 8. munter hitch and hip belay. Even if you use the other things properly there are way more things that can go wrong with them than when using a gri gri. No matter how attentive you are you're bound to lose attention or get distracted for even a fraction of a second and with the other systems it could have great consequences. With the gri gri it's pretty safe.
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curt
Oct 14, 2003, 2:57 AM
Post #38 of 70
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In reply to: In reply to: Yes, if used properly, it is safe, just like an ATC, a figure 8, a munter hitch, or a hip belay. If used correctly it's way safer than the ATC, figure 8. munter hitch and hip belay. Even if you use the other things properly there are way more things that can go wrong with them than when using a gri gri. No matter how attentive you are you're bound to lose attention or get distracted for even a fraction of a second and with the other systems it could have great consequences. With the gri gri it's pretty safe.
To put it simply, that is total BS.
Curt
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rcaret
Oct 14, 2003, 3:02 AM
Post #39 of 70
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In reply to: I know of two people who have taken long falls while rapping on thin lines (~8-9mm) with a grigri. One ended in broken bones. From what I know, it works as a self-belay on fat lines (10mm+) but is not billed as such. Jeff
The side of my Gri-Gri states 10 to 11 mm rope so the falls on smaller rope = Human error .
As a self-belay it needs a modification because it will not hold in a head first fall , The modification voids the warranty and you need a full body harness when using it as a self-belay device even after the modification.
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climb_plastic
Oct 14, 2003, 3:09 AM
Post #40 of 70
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Registered: Sep 24, 2003
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Yes, if used properly, it is safe, just like an ATC, a figure 8, a munter hitch, or a hip belay. If used correctly it's way safer than the ATC, figure 8. munter hitch and hip belay. Even if you use the other things properly there are way more things that can go wrong with them than when using a gri gri. No matter how attentive you are you're bound to lose attention or get distracted for even a fraction of a second and with the other systems it could have great consequences. With the gri gri it's pretty safe. To put it simply, that is total BS. Curt
No it's not.
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curt
Oct 14, 2003, 3:15 AM
Post #41 of 70
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Yes, if used properly, it is safe, just like an ATC, a figure 8, a munter hitch, or a hip belay. If used correctly it's way safer than the ATC, figure 8. munter hitch and hip belay. Even if you use the other things properly there are way more things that can go wrong with them than when using a gri gri. No matter how attentive you are you're bound to lose attention or get distracted for even a fraction of a second and with the other systems it could have great consequences. With the gri gri it's pretty safe. To put it simply, that is total BS. Curt No it's not.
Yes it is. Haha, how long do you think this pissing contest can go on?
Curt
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climb_plastic
Oct 14, 2003, 3:24 AM
Post #42 of 70
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Yes, if used properly, it is safe, just like an ATC, a figure 8, a munter hitch, or a hip belay. If used correctly it's way safer than the ATC, figure 8. munter hitch and hip belay. Even if you use the other things properly there are way more things that can go wrong with them than when using a gri gri. No matter how attentive you are you're bound to lose attention or get distracted for even a fraction of a second and with the other systems it could have great consequences. With the gri gri it's pretty safe. To put it simply, that is total BS. Curt No it's not. Yes it is. Haha, how long do you think this pissing contest can go on? Curt
I don't know.....No it's not.
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alpnclmbr1
Oct 14, 2003, 3:31 AM
Post #43 of 70
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Yes, if used properly, it is safe, just like an ATC, a figure 8, a munter hitch, or a hip belay. If used correctly it's way safer than the ATC, figure 8. munter hitch and hip belay. Even if you use the other things properly there are way more things that can go wrong with them than when using a gri gri. No matter how attentive you are you're bound to lose attention or get distracted for even a fraction of a second and with the other systems it could have great consequences. With the gri gri it's pretty safe. To put it simply, that is total BS. Curt No it's not. Yes it is. Haha, how long do you think this pissing contest can go on? Curt
Used properly a grigri is not any safer than a properly used atc.
Used improperly as evidenced by the false sense of confidence you have espoused in your post a grigri's benefits can be outweighed by the downside in attitude.
When all is said and done I would rather be belayed by a beginner with a grigri then a begginer with an atc. (in a situation where i might fall anyway)
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curt
Oct 14, 2003, 3:34 AM
Post #44 of 70
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In reply to: If used correctly it's way safer than the ATC, figure 8. munter hitch and hip belay. Even if you use the other things properly there are way more things that can go wrong with them than when using a gri gri. No matter how attentive you are you're bound to lose attention or get distracted for even a fraction of a second and with the other systems it could have great consequences. With the gri gri it's pretty safe.
Curt
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catra
Oct 14, 2003, 3:35 AM
Post #45 of 70
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I don't think a gri gri is 100% safe.... It failed when i was rapping off El Cap and i took a 30 foot fall to the end of where the rope was tied off..
The rope caught my arm, and I broke my ulna. i now have a plate, and seven screws in my arm, but hey at least im alive...
Cheers,
Catra
http://www.rocknrun.net
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curt
Oct 14, 2003, 3:38 AM
Post #46 of 70
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In reply to: When all is said and done I would rather be belayed by a beginner with a grigri then a begginer with an atc. (in a situation where i might fall anyway)
Curt
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climb_plastic
Oct 14, 2003, 3:42 AM
Post #47 of 70
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In reply to: In reply to: If used correctly it's way safer than the ATC, figure 8. munter hitch and hip belay. Even if you use the other things properly there are way more things that can go wrong with them than when using a gri gri. No matter how attentive you are you're bound to lose attention or get distracted for even a fraction of a second and with the other systems it could have great consequences. With the gri gri it's pretty safe. Only a poor workman blames his tools. The Gri-Gri can easily instill a false sense of safety in an incompetent belayer. This can have dire consequences. A belayer is either competent (i.e. safe) or he/she is not. End of story. The device used has absolutely nothing to do with it. Curt
Yeah but I'd rather have a competent belayer using a gri-gri than a competent user using an atc. I'm not comparing an incompetent gri-gri user with a competent user on an atc. That wouldn't be a fair comparison. If I had a competent user on a gri-gri I'm pretty certain nothing will go wrong. I'm not as sure nothing will go wrong with a competent user on an atc.
You might have to read this a couple of times to get what I'm saying.
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curt
Oct 14, 2003, 3:47 AM
Post #48 of 70
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: If used correctly it's way safer than the ATC, figure 8. munter hitch and hip belay. Even if you use the other things properly there are way more things that can go wrong with them than when using a gri gri. No matter how attentive you are you're bound to lose attention or get distracted for even a fraction of a second and with the other systems it could have great consequences. With the gri gri it's pretty safe. Only a poor workman blames his tools. The Gri-Gri can easily instill a false sense of safety in an incompetent belayer. This can have dire consequences. A belayer is either competent (i.e. safe) or he/she is not. End of story. The device used has absolutely nothing to do with it. Curt Yeah but I'd rather have a competent belayer using a gri-gri than a competent user using an atc. I'm not comparing an incompetent gri-gri user with a competent user on an atc. That wouldn't be a fair comparison. If I had a competent user on a gri-gri I'm pretty certain nothing will go wrong. I'm not as sure nothing will go wrong with a competent user on an atc. You might have to read this a couple of times to get what I'm saying.
As my comprehension is pretty good, I only had to read it once. You are clearly either:
1) an idiot.
or
2) a total n00b climber with no experience whatsoever.
Curt
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alpnclmbr1
Oct 14, 2003, 3:52 AM
Post #49 of 70
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In reply to: In reply to: When all is said and done I would rather be belayed by a beginner with a grigri then a begginer with an atc. (in a situation where i might fall anyway) But Dan, wouldn't you first determine that this "beginner" knows the basics of belaying before allowing him/her to belay you? I know you would. And in that case, the belay device just doesn't matter. Curt
For the most part I wouldn't let a beginner climber belay me on a climb I could actually fall on. Most times I just assume I am soloing and there is no way I would let them lower me without someone backing them up.
There have been situations where I bent that rule a little bit and a grigri does offer some additional confidence.
I have met people who have been climbing for a long time who I wouldn't let belay me on a climb I could fall on with a grigri or an atc.
I am paranoid about my belayers in situations where I might fall, and the number of people who inspire confidence as a belayer is rather limited.
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curt
Oct 14, 2003, 3:56 AM
Post #50 of 70
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In reply to: I have met people who have been climbing for a long time who I wouldn't let belay me on a climb I could fall on with a grigri or an atc. I am paranoid about my belayers in situations where I might fall, and the number of people who inspire confidence as a belayer is rather limited.
Curt
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