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crow
Oct 22, 2003, 4:32 AM
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So I'm a flegling trad climber at best. I've lead dozens of 5.6 routes that feild like childs play and end up running most of them out ( I know not a good way to start). I've lead a beautiful straight-in 5.7 crack in Tauchitz that was deffinitely the hardest trad climb I've ever done and maybe three other 5.7 and 5.8's combined. I don't climb with that many people that are better than me so i really don't have someone to follow. I get freaked as hell when going to the valley cause my jamming sucks and the rock is slick as hell. I don't feel like I could even comeclose to something above a 5.7. Of course I'm worried that my placements are not solid but I deffinitely know a bad placement when I see it. I feel like I would deff. fall on a 5.8 and deff. 5.9. I'm not scared of falling when sport climbing at all. But then this goes back to me trusting my placements. I want to get better and am trying to take it slow. I'm looking for any advice and helpful hints, even if they won't apply till I'm leading 5.10. Thanks, Crow. :?
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sbclimber
Oct 22, 2003, 5:28 AM
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i'd say just keep climbing trad. I know it sounds like a lame answer, but thats what will work.
That and try to find someone better than you to lead for you, then second them to get some practice on the harder trad routes.
Climb and climb more and it will come.
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maculated
Oct 22, 2003, 5:58 AM
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Crow, if there was some trad around you, I'm planning on visiting SC one of these days, but I only lead up to about 5.9 right now.
I think you should definitely take your time. You shouldn't be falling if you're climbing 5.9 trad and leading it. You shouldn't be falling until you are really comfortable with your placements.
BTW, I like that you admit that you aren't totally sure. That's the sign of someone who is totally respectable. I see way too many beginners getting on 5.10 right when they start.
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aussiedean
Oct 23, 2003, 5:47 AM
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get into a gym build up some more technique and fitness. Just keep climbing comfortable grades and placiong gear you will climb harder grades soon.
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rizzuh
Oct 23, 2003, 8:55 AM
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You should take out your entire rack to a big boulder field and just set up tons of trad anchors... hanging belays, top pitch, etc. Practice on equalizing the anchors and good rope management. Going with someone who knows what a good placement is would be great... just set up a bunch of 3 point anchors and go back with the pro of the team to review.
rock on
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desertclimber
Oct 23, 2003, 11:09 AM
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Learn a little aid climbing, it will help you trust your gear placements. You'll see what happens when weight is applied to different pieces. This also leads up to the next step- practice falling. Yep, it helps tremendously! You can have a few placements immediately below the piece you want to fall on, to give you more confidence- then, as long as you can take the fall safely (ie- no ledges, etc.), let it happen. Just choose clean, steep, routes, which may mean they will be a little harder.
Just my opinion, but at least try a bit of aid climbing...
*grin*
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bumblie
Oct 23, 2003, 12:03 PM
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Get on sport routes at or above your limit. If you really go for it, you'll end up taking falls. Learning that falls aren't fatal does wonders for your lead head and it's a whole lot easier (mentally) to take your initial whippers on a shiny bolt than a suspect gear placement. Additionally, on sport routes you can focus more on technique. Although climbing sport does violate the Trad Purist ethic, it will be beneficial to your trad climbing.
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fitzontherocks
Oct 23, 2003, 1:13 PM
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I'm in a similar situation and was able to move from about a 5.7 trad to a 5.9 trad by first toproping that route. I was familiar with the route then and I knew where the most likely place to fall was, so I really backed up that area with 2-3 bomber pieces. As it happend, I breezed past it with no falls. And I will admit, readily, that I've yet to fall on a piece. Taken plenty of sport falls up to 5.11, so I know the feeling. I just need to "practice falling" as someone earlier said. (And please don't start flaming me 'cause I haven't fallen on a piece yet. It's just so tacky and uncool.)
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fear
Oct 23, 2003, 3:40 PM
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Well, I'm from the old school of the "leader must not fall". If I fall on gear it's because I screwed up. But that's me. So the fact that you haven't fallen yet on gear is good in my mind.
Rather than running those easy .6's out, place bomber gear and have your second rate each piece. Practice downclimbing on lead too. It's a skill you'll end up needing someday in the harder stuff. And when getting on harder stuff, refuse to run a section out you can protect it adequately. The reason you see a lot of new guys progressing to 5.10 trad in their first couple years is simple. 90% of their pro sucks, huge runouts. Same thing on ice recently. Makes me cringe....
So take it slow, never be afraid to back down....
-Fear
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bustinmins
Oct 26, 2003, 1:33 AM
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A friend of mind once told me, the best climber in the world is the one that is having the most fun. Keep climbing - with time your skills will improve and you will then be ready to tackle harder routes. This same friend also told me to climb the same routes repeatedly except go up with a different mindset with each ascent. Maybe on one ascent you are going up with the idea that you will place as many hexes as possible or as many nuts etc. Do this and the same routes will then provide you with more learning. He also mentioned to me that some climbers only feel like they are doing better by leading higher numbers - not true. A good climber will tackle an easier route than their hardest lead and try to complete it with more grace and balance than before - thus learning more skills to be applied later.
Additionally, the only way to improve climbing skills is to climb. Just keep it up and keep that apparent level head of yours - you'll do fine.
Peace,
JD
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timstich
Nov 2, 2003, 3:10 PM
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I'm a beginning trad leader myself. Keeping on the comfortable grades is definitely my mantra for leading. In fact, I like doing super easy pitches where I can take even more time and assess all the gear thoroughly, look at the rope drag, and sort of give myself a grade. I keep the time on the pitch within reason out of courtesy for my belayer of course.
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buzzard
Nov 2, 2003, 3:47 PM
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I myself have just started trad climbing, and one thing that this guy has been teaching me, was try to stick to the routes that you know you will not fall on. Then when you are comfortable try a harder one. One thing that he did that helped out a lot was, we would tranverse on the bottom where there would a lot of spots for placements, it helped me out seeing a bad placement, and also picking up on the good ones too.
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climbingnurse
Nov 2, 2003, 4:54 PM
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Last summer (2002) I started trad leading and spent most of the summer in the Gunks working my way up to 5.7. Then last winter I busted my butt in the gym. On my first day outside this spring I did my firstever 5.8 on gear... Then right after that I did my first 5.10 on gear. I felt totally comfortable. I also thought that 5.10 was no big deal at all. Ah, hubris.
Then I went back up to the Gunks a couple weeks later. Jumped on The Dangler (5.10). Took my first, second, and third leader falls onto trad gear. Not a big deal though. The Dangler is about the cleanest fall you could imagine (200' of air under you).
Anyway, I felt a lot better about my gear after that. I've still only redpointed 2 10's on gear, but that's mostly cuz other things have conspired against me climbing hard for right now. (Too busy w/ school, lack of health insurance, etc.)
Have Fun,
Keith
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gritstoner
Nov 2, 2003, 7:13 PM
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i also agree that the old school ethic of the leader must not fall is a great one. in 8 years of climbing i have taken 4 leader falls. only one of them resulted in injury though. the best way to learn to place gear is to walk along the bottom of a crag with a rack and try to place it. then shove a bit of weight on it. the other plan is to continue on the easier climbs and try to lace them.
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joshuaroe
Jun 28, 2005, 3:38 AM
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finding myself very much in the same beginner situation, i would echo all the old school thought. i climb fully knowing i could fall but with intention not to fall. i've walked around many crags placing gear close to the ground and hanging on it. also, when following a route, i'll even practiceplace some of my gear since my mentor/teacher is that patient with me. he'll also have me place low gear and evaluate it for me, that makes me feel super comfortable about the placements. one thing to add to this post: since i started trad this spring, i've already started having regular dreams about my own full rack and all the places i'll eventually climb. and to really toss a crazyness factor in the play; i started free-soloing before trad so i've learned about commitment at a young age too :wink:
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kinosoo
Jun 28, 2005, 6:56 PM
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I’m just learning to what I do is take easer roots that I know I should not fall and place shit loads of gear like ever five feet then have someone with experience clean it for me. I started placing gear as i need it and i would only place like 100 peaces a day now I’m placing like 300 peaces so my learning go a lot faster. even though I look like a moron climbing with a massive rack on a tiny climb, oh and try and not just place at the same place you always do mix it up
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