|
|
|
|
iamthewallress
Nov 1, 2003, 12:24 AM
Post #1 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
|
I'm still trying to "become conscious" of my "power leaks" so that I can make a more conscious effort to get over them.
Dawn's question about whether or not we should use grades (5.x) when we're talking about our climbs has me thinking about a big power leak of mine...But figuring out how to deal with it has been a bit more of a dilema. I bring myself down a lot by thinking that it's "only 5.x" and therefore I should be able to do it. I also get psyched when I pull off a (harder) 5.y. I've been trying to get away from the numbers somewhat, still, when launching out on a multipitch climb, it's nice to have a little peaky at the guidebook, since me getting on a 5.holycrap R/X is objectively not a wise choice.
So, how are you all dealing with numbers as a guideline for safety and fun, without allowing them to find their way into your self talk?
I'm doing this program more because I want to learn to be more comfortable when I'm climbing and get more enjoyment out of it than simply because I want to climb harder. That said, it would seem that me being comfortable enough to climb harder would be an indicator that I'm progressing at this goal. Do you think it is hypocritical or self-defeating to measure progress in some way by more consistantly climbing "harder" routes?
|
|
|
|
|
lou_dale
Nov 1, 2003, 2:00 AM
Post #2 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 27, 2003
Posts: 53
|
super thoughts.........my initial response to that would be just as if
i was approaching this for me, ok? i hope that is ok.
it all depends on what type of climb - if it's trad - i'm going to stick to a ratings as a guide to be safe.
on sport routes? i don't pay much attention to the ratings because it's all relative.
so - i'm careful with trad, mindful of those ratings - but only as a safety margin; for sport routes - if i can get my little fingers and my little feet on it - i'm going to ENGAGE the climb and see what happens.
becoming aware or conscious - this could be a very good step - being aware first of all that - it's just a number........and that number isn't you or how you climb. it's just something to use as a guide.....
that is just my thought on it - and how i have approached it - i have had to. my husband is one foot taller than me. he weighs 100 pounds more than me. wouldn't trade that partner on the rock or in life for anybody else but it sure makes climbing interesting, so i have just had to look at numbers and say - screw it...........it's just a number......it's like age - it is just a number and isn't who you are or what you are, how good or bad.
on a good day, you may climb a 5.12; on a bad day - you can't even climb out of bed.
by being conscious, you become aware of anything that is self limiting or defeating. thinking about those numbers could be something that causes power leaks because your thoughts aren't 100 percent on your climbing.
i have a lot of friends that we introduce to climbing and before they start on WHAT IS THE GRADE? i let them know - all 5.9s are not created equal, nor are 10s, etc. - and all that matters is to be safe, use the numbers just for safety sake........but climb it for you and love what you are doing.
lou
|
|
|
|
|
dalguard
Nov 1, 2003, 4:21 PM
Post #3 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2003
Posts: 239
|
I know what you mean. I posted that about not using numbers here only to try to keep us all on an even footing. IRL I beat myself up with the numbers the same as you do and there's just no way to win. Either it's 5.easy and then I'm annoyed if I don't float up it or it's 5.hard and I'm psyched and tense before I leave the ground. In other words, I predict the outcome before I even start and if I predict sucess I've got nowhere to go but down and if I predict failure I'm almost guaranteeing it.
But how to get out of it? I don't know. You do have to look at the numbers for safety's sake, at least for trad. Perhaps we could try to divide in our mind into 5.safe enough and 5.save for later and dismiss all the rest of the information.
One thing I've been doing in the gym, that has been working great there, is having "all falling, all the time" days. This is a take-off on my "all overhanging, all the time" days that have helped to build up my strength. On "all falling, all the time" days I'm *supposed* to fall on every route I get on (after a couple of warm-ups). This takes the whole ego/fear of failure thing out of the equation and gets me on challenging routes instead of ego-safe routes. The only failure is to not fall, which means I didn't set my sights high enough.
But that's toprope. I'm nowhere near being able to have that attitude on lead.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Nov 3, 2003, 6:54 PM
Post #4 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: ...I beat myself up with the numbers the same as you do and there's just no way to win. Either it's 5.easy and then I'm annoyed if I don't float up it or it's 5.hard and I'm psyched and tense before I leave the ground. In other words, I predict the outcome before I even start and if I predict sucess I've got nowhere to go but down and if I predict failure I'm almost guaranteeing it.
This isn't a direct answer to the question, but I think it is relevant. I notice, Dawn, that you are defining success or failure based on whether you send the route or not. But is that what you really value, or do you value learning, improving, overcoming obstacles? You've joined this forum, I suspect, not to learn to get up routes so much as to learn to overcome fear. That says something, I think, about your underlying value system. So, rather than equating success with flashing a route, consider redifining it.
For me personally, a successful climb is one in which I've climbed well, giving it my full effort, regardless of whether I flash or redpoint the route, or fall. Honestly, I've come to value falling off while trying my hardest over reaching the anchors without falling. If I do the latter, I must not have been pushing myself enough ;) .
Saturday I climbed at J Tree, an area where I find many climbs -- especially the bolted ones -- intimidating. I was attempting to flash the hardest route I've ever led there. As usual, the route felt runout, greasy, awkward, and psychologically uncomfortable. After clipping the second bolt, I said "take," but my partner said "naw, keep going." I did (more on this soon in another thread), clipped the third bolt, climbed some more, got out of sequence, and eventually fell above the third bolt. In falling on the route, I learned something that I could not have had I flashed the route: that it is possible to safely fall on a bolted J Tree route, and that I don't have to take when I start to feel like I might fall; rather, I can make the doubtful moves and climb to my limit. It would have been a success whether I flashed the route or fell, but falling actually provided the better opportunity to learn something that will be of greater long-term benefit to my climbing.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
dalguard
Nov 4, 2003, 4:00 PM
Post #5 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2003
Posts: 239
|
Well, Jay, I'm having a hard time these days figuring out exactly how to feel after a route, as mentioned in the "What am I supposed to be learning" thread. As you say, my real goal is to climb without fear, but that isn't happening either. I used to pat myself on the back for "trying" - making the attempt despite my fear. But according to the book "there is no try" (to quote Yoda). So I just don't know.
I lead a route that's harder than everything I've ever led before. I don't lead it well. I have fear. I do get to the anchors. I do learn how to do a certain move I'd never done before. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel about that. I mean, I know how I do feel about it: proud that I tried and that I did get to the anchors; disappointed that I didn't do a better job of it when I think that most of it was within my abilities. But neither of those emotions is "correct." So . . .
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Nov 4, 2003, 4:36 PM
Post #6 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: ...As you say, my real goal is to climb without fear, but that isn't happening either.... I lead a route that's harder than everything I've ever led before. I don't lead it well. I have fear. I do get to the anchors...
Well, to climb without fear is probably a little unrealistic. Goals of reducing fear or dealing with irrational fears might be more realisitic.
So, anyway, let's say your goal is to reduce feelings of fear while climbing. What has been your approach to attaining that goal?
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
dalguard
Nov 4, 2003, 4:44 PM
Post #7 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2003
Posts: 239
|
That's a good question. I don't think I'm at that chapter yet. So far I supposed to be breathing, observing, delaying, learning, and avoiding power leaks.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Nov 4, 2003, 5:09 PM
Post #8 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: That's a good question. I don't think I'm at that chapter yet. So far I supposed to be breathing, observing, delaying, learning, and avoiding power leaks.
I don't have the book with me, but I think in chapter 2, Arno presents a quote from an actual student from an exercise relating to using power words. The exercise is to fill in the following blanks:
"My biggest problem in climbing is ____
"My biggest challenge in climbing is ____
"My biggest opportunity in climbing is ____"
Try this exercise yourself and compare your answers with those given by the student in the text. I think you'll find this quite interesting.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
dalguard
Nov 4, 2003, 7:34 PM
Post #9 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2003
Posts: 239
|
I did that excercise but didn't get much out of it. I could really use some concrete examples from people who have been helped. I find I'm only getting the same words from the book repeated back to me.
Concretely, specifically, what are some thoughts people have had pre- or post-climb that they feel exemplify the principles expressed in the book and that also have helped them.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Nov 4, 2003, 7:37 PM
Post #10 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: I did that excercise but didn't get much out of it. I could really use some concrete examples from people who have been helped. I find I'm only getting the same words from the book repeated back to me. Concretely, specifically, what are some thoughts people have had pre- or post-climb that they feel exemplify the principles expressed in the book and that also have helped them.
Would you be willing to post your answers to the exercises?
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
iamthewallress
Nov 4, 2003, 7:52 PM
Post #11 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
|
In reply to: I did that excercise but didn't get much out of it. I could really use some concrete examples from people who have been helped. I find I'm only getting the same words from the book repeated back to me.
Yeah, my tries at this one have been a bit too nebulous to be useful. I think that I have overly identified with my problems and challenges yet have a hard time seeing clear ways to overcoming them.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Nov 5, 2003, 5:00 AM
Post #12 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: In reply to: I did that excercise but didn't get much out of it. I could really use some concrete examples from people who have been helped. I find I'm only getting the same words from the book repeated back to me. Yeah, my tries at this one have been a bit too nebulous to be useful. I think that I have overly identified with my problems and challenges yet have a hard time seeing clear ways to overcoming them.
Maybe we should do this exercise as a group. Anyone care to start a new thread with their answers?
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
calliope
Nov 5, 2003, 6:24 AM
Post #13 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2002
Posts: 1212
|
In reply to: I did that excercise but didn't get much out of it. I could really use some concrete examples from people who have been helped. I find I'm only getting the same words from the book repeated back to me. Concretely, specifically, what are some thoughts people have had pre- or post-climb that they feel exemplify the principles expressed in the book and that also have helped them.
I climbed on granite for the first time last weekend. It was mostly face climbs and one crack. When my guide told me to climb them I looked at him and said, you gotta be kidding me. I wigged out halfway up the first climb and set up camp on a pretty comfy ledge. I wasn't budging off it. I kept thinking about everything except what I should have been thinking about. Then he said, you're not breathing. Just breathe and climb. So, I started concentrating on the inhalations and exhalations and started climbing. The feet were teeny and there were no hands. Everything I knew to be true in my rational brain was telling me that there was no way I should have been able to move up the rock, and yet I was. As long as I kept moving and kept breathing I was centered and balanced. When I started "thinking" I ran into trouble.
I don't know if this is concrete enough. It happened on every one of the climbs except for the crack which I fell on and didn't think much of after the fall. I just got back on and was at the top before I knew it. The physical exertion was harder than on the face climbs and I had to concentrate on that rather than my phantom fear of falling or looking inexperienced in front of climbers who had less experience than me.
|
|
|
|
|
on_sight_man
Nov 5, 2003, 8:13 AM
Post #14 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2002
Posts: 628
|
In reply to: Well, Jay, I'm having a hard time these days figuring out exactly how to feel after a route, as mentioned in the "What am I supposed to be learning" thread. As you say, my real goal is to climb without fear, but that isn't happening either. I used to pat myself on the back for "trying" - making the attempt despite my fear. But according to the book "there is no try" (to quote Yoda). So I just don't know. I lead a route that's harder than everything I've ever led before. I don't lead it well. I have fear. I do get to the anchors. I do learn how to do a certain move I'd never done before. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel about that. I mean, I know how I do feel about it: proud that I tried and that I did get to the anchors; disappointed that I didn't do a better job of it when I think that most of it was within my abilities. But neither of those emotions is "correct." So . . .
I think you need to stop thinking so much about what you're SUPPOSED to feel about it all. There's nothing wrong with feeling good about getting to the top after working something out. And there's nothing wrong with being disappointed about being unable to do a move. The "danger" (if you wanna call it that) of these thoughts is simply that you'll start to identify with them. So rather than thinking "I blew that dyno" you think "I suck at dynos". The first is an fairly objective observation. The second is probably just wrong but if you believe it, it'll become true.
I think most of the mind game stuff just has to do with getting a little distance from what we're doing so we don't get so caught up in performance that we forget why we're out there... to have fun and to learn. So go ahead and "pat yourself on the back when you make the attempt despite the fear". And then honestly look at your performance and try to see how to improve it.
Was the fear justified? Was there anything you might have done that could have lessened it? Maybe having your belayer yell "you MADE your decision already, now DO IT". I had a partner who would say "just relax" right at the crux and it helped a LOT. Pretty soon, I was saying it to myself.
|
|
|
|
|
on_sight_man
Nov 5, 2003, 8:50 AM
Post #15 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2002
Posts: 628
|
In reply to: Concretely, specifically, what are some thoughts people have had pre- or post-climb that they feel exemplify the principles expressed in the book and that also have helped them.
1) For a long time I was a climber who didn't have stamina. I would get on a longish route and pump out even though I could boulder WAY harder moves. I realized the problem was that I had identified myself as someone who doesn't have stamina. Once I got on a route where the pro or bolt was a little bit away, I would think "I don't have the guns to reach that" and take/fall/jump whatnot. Now I realize that it's not true, and that really, it's an excuse I use to "take" rather than go through the discomfort of the climb. This was a power sink I had. I still have it, but not as much.
2) "I do not like crack climbing". This is because I wasn't able to do it as often and I found that when I did, I couldn't climb at the grade level that I climb face. Because my ego was in the way, I avoided it. With a new mindset, I realize that really, this is my biggest opportunity (one that I've jumped on) to grow. Remember that feeling you get during the first few years when you get better can actually SEE the improvement? I've gotten that in crack climbing. But I had to let go of the idea that "I am a 5.X climber" because I was only climbing 5.U- on crack...
These things didn't come directly from exersises in the book. I don't think a "recipe" approach to it really works. I have to actually internalize the message which will take longer but it's getting there.
|
|
|
|
|
evan
Nov 5, 2003, 3:29 PM
Post #16 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 32
|
To anyone who's interested in reading them, I'm going to post my answers to the "metaphor" exercise in Arno's book tomorrow. I did the exercise two or three weeks ago, and I found that it helped quite a bit. Of course, I also left my workbook at home.
For the curious, it *did* take me an awful long time to rephrase my answers. I think it would have taken longer if I hadn't done certain things over the summer, (i.e., keep a personal journal with my thoughts after each climb I did).
Jay, as you suggested, I'll start this new thread tomorrow.
Cheers,
Evan
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Nov 5, 2003, 6:49 PM
Post #17 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: The "danger" (if you wanna call it that) of these thoughts is simply that you'll start to identify with them. So rather than thinking "I blew that dyno" you think "I suck at dynos".
"I blew that dyno" is better self-talk than "I suck at dynos." But even better would be self-talk focusing on what you need to do next time to latch the dyno.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
iamthewallress
Nov 5, 2003, 8:21 PM
Post #18 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
|
I didn't really phrase my first post here the way that I should have...got sidetracked on my own head trip, although the discussion up till now has been really helpful.
Lemme try again...
1. What are some power leaks that you've identified?
2. How are you dealing with them?
3. Are you using the problem/challenge/opportunity questions, and if so, do you mind sharing them?
A few of mine, some already mentioned, are
1. Getting psyched out by numbers more than safety dictates.
2. Worrying about improving rather than allowing it to be a byproduct of climbing for enjoyment and personal challenge.
3. Negative self talk of all kinds.
4. Avoiding leading certain types of climbs (even at a quite moderate level of difficulty) that are more "commiting" or objectively hazardous.
5. Aid climbing too slowly because I'm overly cautious about my placements and diddle down low in my steps.
6. Bringing too much gear "just in case".
What's on our list? It's probably on mine too, but I haven't identified it yet, so I'm hoping to poach off of your processes of "becoming conscious".
I'm still working on my best P/C/O questions, but I'll post up when I'm happy with them. I'd be appreciative of suggestions for P/C/O questions from others too.
|
|
|
|
|
vivalargo
Nov 6, 2003, 5:52 PM
Post #19 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 26, 2002
Posts: 1512
|
Hey--
My sense of this whole thread -- so far as the crux goes -- is summed up in Dalgard's statement, "So I just don't know."
"Not knowing" is a psychological space outside our comfort zone, and whenever we are outside our comfort zone, we fell vulnerable and chaotic (relative to many factors). A basic ww principal is being able to stay with the chaos and the vulnerability without trying to make it go away.
Many of the questions on this thread seem to be aimed at finding a technique or some piece of advice to make the chaos and vulnerability of "not knowing" go away. The WW and all viable esoteric paths are aimed at empowering us enough to actually stand in the chaos, with a neutral attitude, including remaining neutral towards that part of us that wants an immediate solution and escape from the chaos (immediate gratification). When we strive after solutions to avoid thorny thoughts, feelings and sensations, we are not accepting things as they are, and something cannot transform till we accept them "neat." In resisting "not knowing," we ramp up the chaos.
Much of this boils down to bing able to tolerate hanging with the chaos without striving to make it vanish. Our egos are geared to do just the opposite, to seek escape. No one can hang in the chaos "perfectly," but you gain confidence as you practice. Also, there is often a really disorganized and fractured surface layer to the chaos, full of unprocessed material (we all have it), that initially scares us away from hanging in there. But below the surface is still deep water, but you've got to let yourself drop to get there.
JL
|
|
|
|
|
iamthewallress
Nov 6, 2003, 6:32 PM
Post #20 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
|
In reply to: A basic ww principal is being able to stay with the chaos and the vulnerability without trying to make it go away.
Thanks for that insight!
My boyfriend always talks about going onto the rock to feel a sense of belonging. I am mystified by this concept. Is it true that one can feel a sense of belonging at the same time that they feel as though their head is going to explode? I like this idea of accpepting the chaos, but I'm still at a loss for how to go about doing more than paying it lip service in my own life.
A friend of mine whose apparent death wish extends beyond incredibly bold climbing and into the realm of big wave surfing was talking casaully to me one day about how one must have a total acceptance of the power of the waves to enjoy surfing. It was just another natural force, like a winter storm or something, that he felt like he could not control and therefore it was not useful to fear it. I felt like this gave me some glimpse of how one could go into such a potentially hazzardous situation on the rock and feel that sense of belonging in nature.
There have been times when I've simply said to myself, "I will climb confidently and be at peace on the rock!" just as there have been times when I've said to myself "I will do this climb that is two grades harder than anything I've ever done before." In both cases my positive attitutde wasn't really enough to bring about a change for which I was not properly trained. There are some key steps involved in training myself for acceptance and inner peace in the face of external chaos, that I feel like I'm missing. So, if any of you do feel like you can thrive in the chaos, was it something that you came by naturally, or where there certain mantras, breathing exercizes, visualizations, etc. that help you accept the uncertainty around you without becoming overwhelmed by it?
|
|
|
|
|
vivalargo
Nov 7, 2003, 2:20 AM
Post #21 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 26, 2002
Posts: 1512
|
Hey:
You present two statements that pretty well encapsulate the challenge. The first statement is addressed with a shift in orientation. You wrote:
"I like this idea of accepting the chaos, but I'm still at a loss for how to go about doing more than paying it lip service in my own life."
The key word here is "do." You're still looking to "do" something so the chaos goes away. Reorient yourself to simply attend to it, be present with it, with no agenda to make it go away, without holding onto the hope that by "toughing it out" you will reap some great payoff. The payoff is the learning that comes from simply hanging with it, from a neutral perspective, from a raw awareness state -- more immediately realized with a meditation background. Again, don't mistake the Warrior's Way
as a bag of tricks to get you out of the chaos. Your goal is to stay in it, objectify what you fear really and truly is, vanquish phantom fear, and expand your comfort level. Most paths are geared to wrench you away from or neutrailze the havoc, but not this one, hence the word, "Warrior."
Ultimately you will come to realize that you are actually sourcing much of the chaos unconsciously. The ego will really stir the post and even kick in the flight response when you're outside your comfort zone, all in an attempt to pull you back to "safety." Somewhere in here "fear" will in part transform into excitement. Much of this has to do with practice.
Next you said, "So, if any of you do feel like you can thrive in the chaos, was it something that you came by naturally, or where there certain mantras, breathing exercizes, visualizations, etc. that help you accept the uncertainty around you without becoming overwhelmed by it?"
Most all those exercises are geared to reduce, limit, or simply dodge the chaos, when what you strive after is to let the chaos be your teacher. So simply try and listen. Keep it very simple. Also don't venture too far outside your comfort zone. Just edge your way out. And if you feel up to it, start investigating what "overwhelm" actually, and try and find out how much of this is self-sourced and springing from phantom fear. Again, keep it very simple, in the realm of not-doing.
Fiddle with this with your normal life, then later at the crags. A dry run, if you will.
JL
|
|
|
|
|
robmcc
Nov 7, 2003, 3:16 AM
Post #22 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2003
Posts: 2176
|
In reply to: Ultimately you will come to realize that you are actually sourcing much of the chaos unconsciously. The ego will really stir the post and even kick in the flight response when you're outside your comfort zone, all in an attempt to pull you back to "safety." Somewhere in here "fear" will in part transform into excitement. Much of this has to do with practice.
Dunno that I can add much, but since I'm playing in the forum, I feel like I should try.
I'm in the inbetween state. Once the above was very true for me. Climbing, especially runout climbing, was ecstasy. Pure joy. Now I've regressed and leading at all is often dicey business, but it's coming back fast. I went climbing last Sunday and have since then fighting the intense desire to be back on the rock even though it felt sketchy at the time. Truth is, I bailed, but I want nothing more than to be back. I don't even care if I finish the route this time, I just want to be on it, in that pure moment, again. It's just where I belong. It's what I'm supposed to do. It's home.
In reply to: Next you said, "So, if any of you do feel like you can thrive in the chaos, was it something that you came by naturally, or where there certain mantras, breathing exercizes, visualizations, etc. that help you accept the uncertainty around you without becoming overwhelmed by it?"
I suppose I answered that already. Yep, at one point in the distant past I loved it if not lived for it. I feel the pull already. I didn't do anything to get there, it just happened. John talks about edging your way out, and I guess that's what I did way back when. I started leading on a 5.4 and kept upping the ante until I was leading my TR limit.
I'll submit for your (collective) consideration whether I actually accepted uncertainty or not. I didn't believe there was any uncertainty as far as my physical safety was concerned. I was solid and safe, getting hurt wasn't possible. If I didn't believe I'd fall, I might run it out including past the point were falling would be fatal, but that was ok because I knew I'd never, ever fall. If falling was possible, as it often was, I didn't believe I'd get hurt because I...I don't know. I just didn't believe I'd get hurt. I trusted the gear. I might fly for a while, but I'd be fine.I describe the fall that ended my climbing for 10 years in my intro. That fall wasn't scary until later. In the moment, it was interesting. Oh, cool, look up and see the ground! It was ironic. Yay, the one time in thousands of falls I'm upside down and it's on a belay device that doesn't catch inverted falls. It was puzzling. Why am I upside down? Shouldn't I have stopped by now?
It only scared the crap out of me later when I realized how close a call it really was.
|
|
|
|
|
arnoilgner
Nov 7, 2003, 3:42 AM
Post #23 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2003
Posts: 366
|
A few thoughts...
It is important to BE with the chaos without escaping it. But, you do need to DO something. Mainly, breathe. Breathing helps reduce the anxiety so you can observe yourself while in the midst of the chaos.
Think of this situation: You're pumped and above your pro, ready to clip the rope into a draw, facing a possible 10-15 foot "safe" fall. Your conscious mind is rebelling with all sorts of self-talk that wants you to escape, like "you're too pumped; better grab the draw."
Becoming Conscious entails observing the conscious mind seek escape and not listening to it. The conscious mind is full of limiting habits that need to be transcended. So, breathe and go for the clip instead of grabbing the draw. If you feel you can't "not grab" the draw then do something else and delay grabbing the draw as much as possible. Delaying helps break the habit. Reposition yourself, shake out, pay attention to your balance, move hips in close to the rock, loosen your grip, hang straight armed, find side pulls which use different muscles than straight-down holds, etc.
You need to be able to observe yourself in order for BEING with the chaos to be effective. You'll be able to observe better by finding ways to be as comfortable within the chaos as possible, as i've given examples above.
What I've outlined above is one tangible example, I feel, where the ww processes are applied to climbing and how they help.
|
|
|
|
|
vivalargo
Nov 7, 2003, 4:50 AM
Post #24 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 26, 2002
Posts: 1512
|
"You need to be able to observe yourself in order for BEING with the chaos to be effective."
Indeed, and I suggested the raw awareness or witness state as a right brain picture or example. Most of what we "do" in vulnerable situations is unconscious and actually ratchets up the anxiety, such as breath holding, clenching, freezing, and seeking escape hatches. Once you can start observing these things, and the associated thoughts, you can stop "doing" them.
"You'll be able to observe better by finding ways to be as comfortable within the chaos as possible, as i've given examples above."
I think one's initial forays into hanging in the chaos are a challenge for all of us -- they were for me, at any rate, and they still are if I'm way outside my comfort zone. I've actually looked at this particular aspect quite closely, since for some years I worked with victims of shock trauma (PTSD), and they have exaggerated levels of chaotic material. And chaos is chaos not matter the source or the person or the condition.
One way of "feeling comfortable" is first, to notice that when overwhelm starts in, there is always an internal felt-sense (visceral, body sensations) that have a high velocity. Simply holding the intention of slowing things down, postponing immediate moves, will often steady us up.
Stated differently, it's very instructive to notice that chaos, vulnerability, or whatever you want to call it, has a huge body component, meaning it registers in our body on a sensate level. Without this sensate feedback, we wouldn't "know" to be frightened, angry, etc. Remove the vulnerable feelings and sensations and you only have a thought, and if the thought cannot generate fulsome feelings and sensations, that thought can hold us back very little. (NLP was by and large a way of dissociating "bad" feelings and sensations from the thoughts they were fused to) So again, I've found it very instructive to actually observe and study very closely what, in terms of actual experiential elements, we are experiencing amidst the chaos.
Of course I'm discussing this not so much with climbing in mind, because I believe these are life tools and we all have tons of chances in our daily lives to practice. Impatience is a good one to observe. What is impatience (standing in line, stuck in traffic, waiting for the computer to boot up, et al) as an actual experience? What phantom fears are attached? This is proactive observing, and there's no end to what I've learned doing this. Arno could probably fit this into WW course terms. I'd rather not try.
JL
|
|
|
|
|
dalguard
Nov 7, 2003, 7:24 PM
Post #25 of 31
(7845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2003
Posts: 239
|
In reply to: The key word here is "do." You're still looking to "do" something so the chaos goes away. Reorient yourself to simply attend to it, be present with it, with no agenda to make it go away
Thought-provoking and true. I've spent most of my adult life trying to tame the chaos and create an organized, peaceful, predicatable life for myself. I've done a pretty good job too. But perhaps climbing is a horse I can't tame and I'm going to have to learn to enjoy the wild ride.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
