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petter_f
Nov 7, 2003, 8:12 AM
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Hello all,
I performed a search on this topic but got squillions of posts which took too long to sort through, so sorry if this has previously been covered, so...
I have an un-used 'new' 11mm rope that is about 7 years old and has been in darkness/storage since it was bought. I don't remember who the manufacturer is but would be sure it is a name brand due to the shop I bought it from.
I have now started my out-door climbing career climbing trad and the occasional top rope.
Is is worth sending for (it is overseas in storage) or is it TOO OLD now?
What do the rope experts say?
Thanks for any advice,
Petter.
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pete_the_eskimo
Nov 7, 2003, 8:19 AM
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the addage is, retire any rope that has seen any use after 5 years. And retire a rope that has seen no use after 10 years. pretty stupid advice. Here is the creme filling: You do not know how it has been effected, assuming it was in personal storage and not some rinky dinky garage lot. Make yourself a nice tire swing, or rug and buy a new rope skipper
-Pete
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gravitytheory
Nov 7, 2003, 5:18 PM
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Just solo everything. :twisted:
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mattdog
Nov 7, 2003, 5:23 PM
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The rule is always: if you're unsure, don't use it. Sounds like you're unsure. Get a new one.
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cryder
Nov 7, 2003, 5:40 PM
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Better yet, sell it on Ebay, and claim that your Grandma owned it, but decided climbing wasn't for her... and you dont know what do with it (mispelling the brand name will convince people that you really have no idea).
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climber_osu
Nov 7, 2003, 6:14 PM
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New rope is like $150 max and old rope is real useful round the house for rugs, pulling bushes, helping with your mailbox replacement project, towing vw bugs, and dog toys. If you think the rope may be a problem... get a new one.
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gyngve
Nov 7, 2003, 6:26 PM
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Personally, I'd trust it for top-roping, not for leading.
Of course, you can pee on it and jump on it with crampons in front of some Russian expedition team, and they'll whole-heartedly use it as a fixed line, after building an anchor by threading webbing directly through a few manky pitons.
Chad Kellogg: "If you thought the American Triangle was bad, just wait until you see the Russian Triangle!" :lol:
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curt
Nov 7, 2003, 6:48 PM
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In reply to: I have an un-used 'new' 11mm rope that is about 7 years old and has been in darkness/storage since it was bought. I don't remember who the manufacturer is but would be sure it is a name brand due to the shop I bought it from.
Curt
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desertgranite
Nov 7, 2003, 8:37 PM
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You really need to test it out. Try this:
Tie a figure eight around one end and clip it to a bomproof anchor on top of a clff, or a bridge. Tie the other end into your harness. Jump. If the rope holds, it's OK and you can use it for climbing. If it breaks, well then you just need to buy a new one and you know you won't be wasting your money. If you have any questions, you can consult Dan O's list of freefalls and solos, he was the man.
But wait, are your sure it's a name brand? Because if it's not, Dan O would have never used it. He only used BLACK DIAMOND. If you don't know the manufacturer, maybe you don't know the diameter, or the length, is it a 150'? Heck maybe it's a static line you bought for rappeling when you thought you would join ROTC right out of the Boy Scouts. I think you should probably take a climbing lesson or two if you need to ask the climbing public if you should trust your life to your own rope. :shock:
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fredrogers
Nov 7, 2003, 9:30 PM
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I'd use it. I bet that old 11mm rope is going to hold more falls than my new 9.8mm rope. Sound like you knew the storage conditions and you are the original owner. Unless it was sitting in battery acid I'd use it.
Unless you're Dan Osman doing repeated bungee jumps with your ropes, you'll be OK. Ropes wear out slowly and don't just break one day (unless cut over a sharp edge). But you might enjoy using a skinnier rope (9.8mm-10.5mm) for the reasons of better rope handling and light weight. If you're still concerned about your rope, write emails to 2 or 3 rope manufacturers and ask them their advice.
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mtnbkrxtrordnair
Nov 7, 2003, 9:35 PM
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I would'nt use it as a lead rope. Use it for TR, or as a second rope for double rope raps. IMO
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gyngve
Nov 7, 2003, 10:30 PM
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In case you're curious why we're suggesting TR but not lead, one reason is that ropes lose elasticity with age... so if you take a lead fall, you're then subjecting yourself and your pro to larger forces.
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curt
Nov 8, 2003, 12:43 AM
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In reply to: In case you're curious why we're suggesting TR but not lead, one reason is that ropes lose elasticity with age... so if you take a lead fall, you're then subjecting yourself and your pro to larger forces.
Ropes do not degrade with age, per se, but rather with use.
Curt
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petter_f
Nov 8, 2003, 4:17 AM
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Thanks for your help ALL,
There seems to be some hope for future Top Rope use for it, but to be on the safe side I shall contact some manufacturers, as was mentioned, and get the low down from them.
If it's a no-go, then I know the best place for a Tarzan swing with wet landing for my nieces and nephews to muck around on.
All the best,
Petter.
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scubasnyder
Nov 8, 2003, 4:30 AM
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Id check it out look for tears, n then just swing it around something n see if its still got some bounce to it. I am a fan of the 11mm but not a fan of how much they weigh.
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hawgdrver
Nov 8, 2003, 5:38 AM
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mrme
Nov 8, 2003, 6:02 AM
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when you start to ask how old is too old it is past do! by asking that question it shows you do not trust it anymore anyway.
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curt
Nov 8, 2003, 5:55 PM
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In reply to: I read a study back in the early eighties which cited loss of strength due to both amount of use and age. Unused, optimally stored older ropes showed a significant loss of strength when subjected to the standard UIAA test, and I believe at least one snapped during the testing process. (!)
Curt
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hawgdrver
Nov 8, 2003, 6:33 PM
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SlowTurtle
Oct 22, 2007, 7:29 PM
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this must be hard to buy used products anyone can simply give you a false estimate of use. In this case brand new ropes from the store knowing they are usually fresh would be ideal
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jackpinesavage
Oct 24, 2007, 3:19 AM
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I have a 50 m edilrid bi color i bought new in 1970 it looks great. They were both stored for a few years while i was overseas and not climbing. Might still be good for climbing. Good enough for tying up boats and cows. I'll use it before i use my goldline i got the same year. They look great in the pile of pins and odd old chocks and stuff. I have a new unused cmi hammer and some new pins i'd like to pound in somewhere too. New rope last year, blue water 11 mm.
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cameltoe
Oct 24, 2007, 3:23 PM
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well, I have taken falls on a rope at least ten years old and been fine.. but then it was an old old rope when ropes were made to last not fall apart so you'd have to buy a new one.... <sigh>
Anyway, more seriously, you could chop a couple of meters off one end and perform a drop test on it to see if it holds - someone help me here - what is the standard for drop tests these days? if it's a longer rope then you're good to go .... just remember int's no loger a 50/60/70 m rope when you lead/abseil or it could get embarassing....
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knudenoggin
Oct 27, 2007, 1:47 AM
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[quote "curt"][quote]
I read a study back in the early eighties which cited loss of strength due to both amount of use and age. Unused, optimally stored older ropes showed a significant loss of strength when subjected to the standard UIAA test, and I believe at least one snapped during the testing process. (!)
[/quote]
Please cite your source for this information. I posted (in another thread) reference to a study that showed exactly the opposite. Some ropes over 10 years old, but not used at all, tested the same as a brand new rope.
Curt[/quote]
Clyde Soles, who for years worked for R&I writing gear reports, says in his
[i][u]Outdoor Knots[/u][/i], p. 57,
[quote]The data from tensile tests of old ropes is somewhat conflicting,
but the general consensus is that strength loss is minimal (2%/year) to nonexistent.
Nearly everyone agrees that a properly stored, unused rope, even if 20 years
old, will not break if used as designed.
Where the issue gets sticky is the dynamic capacity of old climbing ropes.
The concern is that greater impact forces will be imparted to both climbers and
their protection. Also, if elasticity decreases, so does resistance to cutting over
an edge. Several studies have shown a decrease in the number of falls held
by older, unused ropes. ...
[Btw, cf. Beal's recommendations on retirement! --kN*]
[And Clyde goes on to cite Pitt Schubert's claim that his investigation of old ropes
found that even 25yr-old ones could hold one severe (UIAA) fall.]
.:. I'd say that you are certainly safe to use the rope for TR, and might compare
falling on it with someone's newer rope, re leading on it. I think that Beal
however puts a 10-year limit on rope use overall, with some light useage.
(Of course, that's today, not necessarily 7yrs ago; but ropes were pretty
rugged then, too.)
As for the oft' recommended TOWING with a DYNAMIC rope, beware the
snapback if it breaks--not good! Frankly, one would want a much less
elastic rope for towing, or pulling up things.
--kN*
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wallrat
Oct 27, 2007, 4:03 AM
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Here is a direct quote from a study on aged ropes and breakage, done by Pit Schubert. You can find by Googling UIAA Aged ropes study, or something like that. Quote "In practice, todays ropes will not break at the attachment knot, not at the Karabiner of a running belay. These facts hold for 10 or even 15 year old ropes. This has been proved by many tests of such old ropes (not even 25, and even one 30 year old rope broke in standatd tests, they still held one fall)etc. I shortened the passage for brevity, but you can see what they meaning and general feeling is. Nuff said? Cheers.
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