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rodeomountain
Nov 14, 2003, 4:32 PM
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Where can I buy one of these? Barrabes.com is the only place I found it and they want to charge $16 for shipping.
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passthepitonspete
Nov 14, 2003, 5:00 PM
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Fundamental aid climbing gear, as scarce as hens' teeth.
I would phone the Mountain Shop in Yosemite, and beg and grovel for them to mail you one if you give them your card number, or mail a SASE. Perhaps throw in a pint of blood for good measure. This is the one and only place I have seen these things regularly available.
[rant] Why is it that some people in the Mountain Shop are the nicest and most helpful you would ever meet? And others are Real Jerks? Just because you're the only gig in town doesn't mean you should treat your customers with so "cavalier" an attitude! And cavalier is the kindest word I could think of. And a preposition is a bad thing to end a sentence with. Just because you make p*sspots full of money selling climbing gear to people who are going to buy it even if you treat them with disrespect is no excuse. But it sure as hell is an explanation, isn't it? [/rant]
Otherwise, check the usual places. I think I originally bought mine from Mtn Tools, before the Mountain Shop caught on and started stocking them.
If you're going to Kong, do yourself a favour and make your first hauling device your last hauling device - fork out the extra $15 more than the ProTraxion costs, and buy yourself a Kong Roll-Block.
[or is it Block-Roll?! Sheesh.]
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lambone
Nov 14, 2003, 6:49 PM
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http://promountainsports.com in Seattle. One of the best gear shops anywhere...run by a "real" climber.
Use 7mil chord. 6 mil slips in my experience...which sucks and is a good way to scare the crap out of yourself. I was slipping all the way up the Zodiac :x
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rodeomountain
Nov 14, 2003, 7:56 PM
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Thanks lambone, I called the and ordered one. I found that website this morning and sent them an e-mail asking if they carry it but never heard anything.
Thanks again.
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ricardol
Nov 14, 2003, 9:28 PM
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In reply to: http://promountainsports.com in Seattle. One of the best gear shops anywhere...run by a "real" climber. Use 7mil chord. 6 mil slips in my experience...which sucks and is a good way to scare the crap out of yourself. I was slipping all the way up the Zodiac :x
same experience here .. sliding to the knot on the end of the fifi cord is a sure way to soil your pants ..
.. i finally figured out that the cord would only slide when i was "shock" loading the fifi .. (loading it with some force while there was slack in the system) .. (such as when hauling.. or moving around setting up anchors) ..
.. the last 2 days i was careful to always gently load the cord and then put my whole weight on it -- never slipped again ..
.. having said that -- next wall i'll use 7mm cord ..
-- ricardo
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nefarius
Nov 14, 2003, 10:09 PM
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Tieing the backup knot that PTPP suggests when using the adjustable fifi takes care of the slipping.
Pete: Damn! I'm not the only one! I'll say what you were avoiding... Some of the guys at the Mountain Shop are real D|cks!!! Then, as you stated, the others are pretty cool!
I want to go to what, I'm sure, is Pete's DREAM climbing store... [Wo]Manned by nothing but hotties, who all have actual climbing knowledge and experience. They should be friendly and always smiling. Oh, did I mention the bikinis? :wink:
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passthepitonspete
Nov 14, 2003, 11:10 PM
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[Dr. Piton pauses to imagine a climbing store [wo]manned with nothing but hardbody climbing hotties.... WEG
"Oooooh, Dr. Piton, let me model the newest Yates Big Wall Harness for you...... {giggle!} Golly, Doc - I just can't seem to get the leg loops to fit over this pesky little thong I'm wearing ... I don't suppose you could give me a hand .... {blink! blink!} ]
If you want to make things hard for yourself - a LOT harder - use 7mm cord and yard it through your fifi. When your hands cramp at night from pullin' on the thing all the live long day, you'll know why.
However if you are lazy, and wish to climb big walls as smoothly and as easily as possible, you could do as Randy suggests, and get the slipperiest 6mm cord you can find, and tie a simple overhand slipknot in the free end of the cord once you cinch it up.
Then again, some people like to make things harder than they need to be. What sane climber would want to solo a big wall, anyway? Sheesh.
I am Dr. Piton,
and I, too, have slipped many times to the end of my adjustable fifi cord! Yikes!
[However I have since learned how not to...]
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lambone
Nov 14, 2003, 11:30 PM
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I noticed that what actually happens when the chord slips is this:
When it is weighted the chord stretches and gets thinner. Then the two different starnds running through the fifi (one locks the other in place when weighted) swap places, and it no longer locks. Does that make sense...hard to explain.
So even with a back up knot in the chord (what sane climber would want to tie a knot every move...sheesh...a 7 day route would take like 14 days!) ...even with a back up not, you still have to reagrange the chord in the fifi which is a pain and takes time.
You'd have to experience it to know what the hell i was talking about...
Maybe the 7mil is too big, but I need some kind of a solution...
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passthepitonspete
Nov 15, 2003, 12:25 AM
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And here I thought a slipping chord was when the dominant resolved to the tonic.... However what you describe is what happens when the hook slips off the cord.
But du-hude! The "backup knot" is an overhand slipknot that you tie in the free end of the 6mm cord after you cinch it up! It's a four-second operation. Pull in the cord, tie the backup.
Fa-toop poop. Ksh! {rimshot}
When you're ready to make the next move and extend the fifi, you pull on the free end of the cord, and out comes the slipknot. That's about a three-second job.
Surely you can spend an extra seven seconds per move rather than fighting with 7mm cord?
Take my wife ... please! Fa-toop poop. Ksh!
Hey, and guess what, mate? When you pull yourself up on the adjustable fifi cord, it's a 2:1 mechanical advantage!
Fa-toop poop. Ksh!
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jimdavis
Nov 18, 2003, 8:33 PM
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Um, sorry but the friction in the system would drop the actual MA way down, and that setup is actually a redirected 1:1. It probably seems easier to pull up on because your shifting your weight from one side to the other of the system.
That's why it's easier to pull yourself up on the belay strand of a Sling-Shot top rope, however it's not true MA.
If you guy's can furnish some tests on this to prove me wrong please do, but i just tried it out 5 mins ago, so I'm sticking to my statements above.
Jim
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braon
Nov 18, 2003, 9:02 PM
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I was going to ask this question. Thanks for the site lambone. Just got off the phone with them and I should have it by Friday. :D
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lambone
Nov 18, 2003, 9:13 PM
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no sweat,
Promountainsports is a great shop. The owner is Jim Nelson, also author of the Cascade Clasics guide books. Next to Becky he is probably one of the most experienced climbers in the Cascades.
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ricardol
Nov 18, 2003, 9:21 PM
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in my *short* experience .. i also found that the newer the 6mm cord was .. the better it performed.. and the less prone it was to slipping .. (or jumping the rails as i began to call it) ..
.. on zodiac i changed the cord on my fifi while bivyng next to the devil's brow .. always bring extra cordage and stuff! --
.. and BTW .. if you use the fifi as you main means of pulling yourself up on the aiders .. watch out on how it wears on your hand .. i developed a nasty rub that turned to an open cut in about 10 pitches (through gloves!) .. -- i then had to modify how i pulled on the fifi .. (this probably would not have occurred if i was using the adj. daisies as my main means of pulling my arse up)
- ricardo
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lambone
Nov 19, 2003, 12:40 AM
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"in my *short* experience .. i also found that the newer the 6mm cord was .. the better it performed.. and the less prone it was to slipping .. (or jumping the rails as i began to call it) ..."
jumping the rails...good way to describe it, feels like a train wreck at the time as well!
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crotch
Nov 19, 2003, 12:57 AM
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I call it "inverting" as the top strand switches places with the bottom strand. Fun.
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ricardol
Nov 19, 2003, 1:01 AM
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In reply to: Surely you can spend an extra seven seconds per move rather than fighting with 7mm cord?
.. average space between placements ..
4.5 feet .. (i'm 5' 8") (i might be even a bit generous by saying my placements are 4.5 feet apart .. more like 4' seems right)
.. average pitch length on zodiac .. probably about 110' ..
110' * 16 pitches = 1760' (ok -- thats roughly close enough)
1760/4.5 = 391 placements
1760/4 = 440 placements
391 * 7 sec = 2737 seconds = 45 minutes
440 * 7 sec = 3080 seconds = 51 minutes
so i guess you are right doc .. tying and untying the extra knot is not that big of a deal ..
.. though i somehow doubt that i would have the dexterity to tie that knot that quickly after a few days on the wall ..
(the route is probably longer than 1760' of climbing because it traverses in places)
-- ricardo
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lambone
Nov 19, 2003, 4:37 AM
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so it is a common problem...how do we fix it?
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ricardol
Nov 19, 2003, 7:28 PM
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i dont think you can fix it if you use a 6mm cord .. other than what pete suggests of tying a backup knot ..
.. its a byproduct of the small cord that when stretched it may "jump the rails" and send you to what seems like your doom .. though the ride is short its pretty darn scary ..
.. the backup knot works .. and i found that loading the hook carefully also avoids the slippage .. so its not that difficult to avoid .. also the newer the cord, the less likely it is to happen (in my experience)
-- ricardo
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elcapinyoazz
Nov 19, 2003, 8:44 PM
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Here's how ya fix it:
Throw the stupid f'er in the garbage and just use an adjustable daisy.
Man, if you left all these extra pulleys and 8:12 hauling gizmos and dedicated foot loops and chest harnesses and frog systems and all this extra junk on the ground, you'd lighten the load by fifty lbs and get off the wall four days earlier...four days where you could be shaggin your honey in the meadow.
Now don't get me wrong, I love being on a wall, and frog is great for free hanging fixed lines....but I'd rather be drinking beer and knockin boots. Blast it in a day or two and get on with it ehh. That way your lady gets a little break from you, but no so long she feels neglected. This is truly THE BETTER WAY although Dr. PissedOn couldn't tell you this because women run away from him like he was the starting line of the Olympic 100m and the gun just went off....ehhh, hoser.
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lambone
Nov 19, 2003, 9:00 PM
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now don't get me wrong...but I believe 1 kong fif and two regular daisies is lighter than 2 adjustable daisies...
but we are talking bigwall climbing here...not alpine climbing, so the extra ounces you are talking between the two are pretty much irrelevant.
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ricardol
Nov 19, 2003, 9:04 PM
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holy crap -- that killfile sure works like a charm ..
-- ricardo
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elcapinyoazz
Nov 19, 2003, 9:53 PM
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In reply to: now don't get me wrong...but I believe 1 kong fif and two regular daisies is lighter than 2 adjustable daisies... but we are talking bigwall climbing here...not alpine climbing, so the extra ounces you are talking between the two are pretty much irrelevant.
True enough Mr Bone, but I don't recall having to tie knots in my adjustables after every move. Nor do I recall being able to dial-in with exact precision my connection at the belay with a fifi.
Yeah, eventually the adjusties start to slip...that's when I sell off a couple three booty cams to the euros and go get some new adjusties.
But you know...to each his own. I just think every debate needs more perspective than "do it this way, here's how" sometimes you need to ask "why that way and not some other way?" I'll drink a cobra or two for you while you're up there messin with dem knots.
Hey Ricky, I'm home! I'm so proud you added me to your kill file mate. God forbid anyone question your hero, you sycophant. Oh, I don't guess you'll see this since I'm in the kill file....oh well.
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epic_ed
Nov 19, 2003, 10:33 PM
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In reply to: But you know...to each his own. I just think every debate needs more perspective than "do it this way, here's how" sometimes you need to ask "why that way and not some other way?"
Absolutely. It's good to see some additional input.
Ed
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