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spacecowboy
Dec 8, 2003, 12:19 AM
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Registered: Jul 23, 2001
Posts: 61
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Stop me before I do something dumb.
I'm mainly a trad climber, but I 've begun to get really psyched on ice, and have been looking to do some very very easy routes (NEI 1-2) on lead. Problem is, I have no rack, and not a whole lot of cash.
I've heard some bad things about russian ice screws made of titanium, but climb high/mammut makes a screw for 12.50...which is insanely cheap. I've heard stories about them titanium being brittle, and taking long to screw in, and hangers stripping, and everything else. But my question is, as someone who's going to be doing such easy stuff, am I really going to need a rack of fancy bd turbo epxresses when i can get name brand titanium screws for a fraction of the price.
I realize one day i may want super fast steel screws...but on ice where the pro is really only for belay anchors and peace of mind in between them...how important is it...could I justify settling?
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pico23
Dec 8, 2003, 1:31 AM
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Registered: Mar 14, 2003
Posts: 2378
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people have lead much harder routes on titanium ice screws. The north face of everest has been climbed using Ti screws. If your talking NEI 1-2 and your competent I think titanium would be fine. When you start getting vertical the speed of a good screw makes all the difference (that whole sentence really sounds F'ed up). Titanium dulls easily and probably won't last long as an everyday screw but I've been using a few to supplement my rack for the last 2 seasons and haven't had a problem.
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maldaly
Dec 8, 2003, 1:37 AM
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Registered: Oct 31, 2002
Posts: 1208
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Yo' space,
Ti rule number 1: Titanium is weaker than steel and heavier than aluminum. Never forget that.
Ti rule nember 2: Like steel and aluminum Ti can be either brittle or soft. It depends on how it is milled and alloyed. Most Ti screws that I have tested have been on the soft side. They bend easily and suffer final failure through tearing the metal.
Ti isn't the best choce for ice screws unless weight is a super-critical factor. They dull easily and refuse to go into some typer of really hard ice.
None of your questions were dumb until the last paragraph. Dude...belays HAVE to be BOMBPROOF and peace of mind is the only way to real happiness while climbing. Get good screws. Period. If you can't afford good screws right now, wait, get a job and some $, then go climbing with good screws. Or find a partner who's got a good screw(s). Currently BD makes the best screws. They're easy to place, easy to rack, strong and will give you that "peace of mind". The Grivel screw has the nice feature of a folding handle so you can twist it in in tight corners, and I think the Charlet screw is pretty good but doesn't yet have that good express handle that allow fast placement.
Don't forget, your protection is for the consequences of a fall, not the likelhood of a fall.
MCD
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bxt
Dec 8, 2003, 1:57 AM
Post #4 of 6
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Registered: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 33
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I've got to back up Malcolm (not hard to do, huh?) I've got BDs screws and some of the Russian titanium ones mgear.com was selling back in '98 (ones they still sell now?)-- anyway, I hate the titanium ones. Guess they are OK for setting when you're on solid ground or if you've got big guns but they are s-l-o-w and a real pain to start. I would never want to lead on them but that's just me.
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whipper
Dec 8, 2003, 3:17 AM
Post #5 of 6
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Registered: May 21, 2002
Posts: 241
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hey mal, when are we gonna see trango ice screws?
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allarounder
Dec 8, 2003, 4:53 AM
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Registered: Mar 4, 2003
Posts: 174
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Listen to Malcolm, dude. Buy good gear - Grivels, regular BD's, whatever. You'll thank yourself one day. That said, the one fall I ever took on ice was on a Titanium screw, and the only reason it held was because it was placed in a recessed pocket so most of the weight was taken by the shoulder-length runner, distributing force over the ice around it. The Ti screw was backed up by a BD screw, but it didn't take any wieght. The hanger of the ti screw bent slightly due to outward torque on the hanger.
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