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stammster
Dec 30, 2003, 9:34 PM
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Anyone know where to get the cheapest 3/8" X 3" or 3/8" X 3-1/2" stainless steel Rawl bolts online, say around $3-$4 each.
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scubasnyder
Dec 30, 2003, 9:38 PM
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check gearexpress.com they have cheap stuff, or shorelinemtn.com
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stammster
Dec 30, 2003, 9:49 PM
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Thanks, let me re-phrase...
For those who have actually purchased "Rawl" stainless steel bolts (3/8"), did you get them online or from a shop? If so, where? How much did you pay, and do you feel you got the cheapest price?
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climbbaja
Dec 30, 2003, 10:59 PM
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Those Rawl SS "5-piece" bolts are expensive. Fixe USA sells them individually at $4.80 for the 3/8" x 2-1/4" and $6.00 for the 3/8" 3-1/2".
If you are buying in quantity, you might e-mail or call Kevin Daniels, he's a helpful guy. www.fixeusa.com
Also, if you haven't checked out the Fixe "Triplex", it's far stronger and cheaper too. Also easily removable for inspection/replacement. Requires a 12mm drill bit (which Fixe also sells). The sleeve diameter is 12mm, while the actual bolt is 10mm (slightly larger than 3/8"). $4.80 for the 75mm length. See it on the website.
The Rawl 3/8" bolt only has a 5/16" actual bolt diameter. If you go that route, you might want to step up a buck or so and go for the 1/2" size (actual bolt dia. is 3/8"). Greg Barnes of the ASCA tells me they have gone to these. You might check with him about his supplier. http://www.safeclimbing.org/
The name of the Rawl company is now "Powers", which will help if you are shopping online. My main supplier is www.toolup.com but I mostly buy SS wedge anchors (for hard rock only). Good company to deal with if you buy in bulk (boxes of 50). I'm sure they can arrange shipping.
Btw, there are some serious concerns re: the Powers/Rawl torque specs. Bolts have sheared off while being torqued to their specifications with a torque wrench, making lots of other bolts suspect. Stainless steel has a significantly lower torque spec than the carbon steel bolts, so read up and use care, along with an accurate torque wrench.
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roughster
Dec 31, 2003, 1:01 AM
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roughster moved this thread from General to Gear Heads.
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asandh
Dec 31, 2003, 3:35 AM
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:D
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climbbaja
Dec 31, 2003, 4:25 AM
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Hey Art, (Happy New Year, btw)
You're right about all of that. I just wonder if the Rawl/Powers "5 piece" is any less dependent on proper torque for pullout strength than the Fixe "Triplex". They are both sleeve type anchors. Only wedge anchors are non-torque dependent for pullout strength. So, I don't see how the Fixe Triplex is not equal to or better than the 3/8" Rawl "5-piece".
As you know, I prefer the SS wedge anchors for trad routes in hard rock (granite). They are quite inexpensive in 3/8" dia., approx. $1.60 each in boxes of 50 through www.toolup.com Those are 303/304 stainless. For the more corrosion resistant 316 stainless, add about 50%. These are made by ramset-Redhead, the model is "TruBolt". Never buy cheap or unlabeled bolts from the hardware store! Most of these are offshore imitations with unpredictable load failure.
-John
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boltdude
Dec 31, 2003, 6:22 AM
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Actually the ASCA uses 3/8 x 2.25" ss 5-pieces extensively, in most places where we hand drill (you can hand drill 12mm or 1/2" bolts in soft Josh rock, sandstone, Pinnacles, etc).
When you can use power drills, 1/2 x 2.75" ss have been our standard, but after placing a bunch of the new Triplex bolts, I don't see all that much difference and I anticipate using them extensively for ASCA work, especially since the Triplex are available in a shorter length than the 5-piece (good for hand drilling medium rock).
The key with the Triplex is in the sleeve top - since it's a one-piece expansion sleeve/washer (see www.fixeusa.com for pics), if you use a 12mm hanger under the sleeve top, they are very easy to remove - all you do is loosen the nut and yank on the bolt with a draw and they pop right out. However, that's the obvious worry - if the nut loosens, someone could pull the bolt by hand, on lead or rappel, etc.
That's why Kevin at Fixe is strongly recommending using 10mm hangers above the sleeve top. That way, if the nut were to loosen, the hanger can't pull the sleeve. However, that means pulling the bolt would be much harder, since the top of the sleeve will likely get squished into the rock surface and be hard to remove.
Anyway, back to the original question - if you're ordering quantity on 5-pieces, try talking to Kevin at Fixe. Stainless are not available in 3", only 2.25" and 3.5".
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asandh
Dec 31, 2003, 6:54 AM
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:D
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