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cjstudent
Jan 5, 2004, 12:45 AM
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...was it a ride! I was leading at Crowder's Mtn in NC, climbing Overhand Direct (5.8) and was at the Crux. Before moving up to the crux I placed a .5 Camalot and small stopper behind a flake, which was the only pro that i was able to see. Moved up to the crux, needed to place another piece about half way up to avoid a huge fall, and during the process I became burnt out - shaking. "Falling!!!" And my belayer is awesome, he was able to take in a good bit as i was falling. But I fell, part of the flake that the cam was behind broke off pulling the nut in the process...so i took a 30+ footer until a red tri-cam caught me. The scary part was, i was so close to the ground my belayer was able to touch my feet. I was able to push off the wall good when i fell so I didn't smack any ledges, and slammed my hip and head when i finally met up with the wall...but I wear a helmet.
I was shaky for awhile but got over it pretty quick. Went and got my gear back and called it a day because we only had about 30 min to get out before the park "closed"
It was a learning lesson
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hosh
Jan 5, 2004, 12:53 AM
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Dang! Praise God for tri-cams, eh?
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javaguy
Jan 5, 2004, 1:00 AM
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wow...30 ft, sounds like a big fall. Im glad your okey. But you survived so the system works :lol:
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mijenks
Jan 5, 2004, 1:01 AM
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How about: "Dang, praise god for NC weather" 70s in the middle of January?! sweeeeeeeet.
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cjstudent
Jan 5, 2004, 1:13 AM
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In reply to: How about: "Dang, praise god for NC weather" 70s in the middle of January?! sweeeeeeeet.
Yea I know but that was part of the problem - there were tons of people climbing. And my lead level is around 5.6-5.7 because I am new, but the climbs i was going to do at that range were busy. so I jumped on a 5.8. Oh well.
And yea - thank God for tri-cams. It wasn't really the tri-cam but the fact that it was a good placement in a solid location instead of behind a flake. Plus that climb is kinda run-out. The system worked but I will definitly be all about placing a ton of gear now.
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cltclimber
Jan 5, 2004, 1:15 AM
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In reply to: How about: "Dang, praise god for NC weather" 70s in the middle of January?! sweeeeeeeet.
Yea, this is madness. It's supposed to turn cold soon, but i'll believe it when i see it.
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rossgoddard
Jan 5, 2004, 1:29 AM
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could you clean that Tri-cam??? I took a 15 footer of a pink in NH, and after 5 scconds, the second declared it stuck
-harrison
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cjstudent
Jan 5, 2004, 1:36 AM
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Yea the tri-cam came out after some leverage from the nut tool
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tedc
Jan 5, 2004, 5:16 PM
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Glad you came out unharmed. Just a couple suggestions: Did you think the flake would hold your fall? If yes; think again. If no; think about a screamer. Also, perhaps if your belayer knew that you were above sketchy pro they could have tried to catch more softly insetead of yarding in rope?? I always try to let my belayer know what kind of fear (oops, Freudian slip), GEAR I have in and sometimes (depending on the belayer) how to catch me if I should fall.
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socalclimber
Jan 5, 2004, 5:23 PM
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I will reiterate the above sentiment. What was your lesson here???? The minute I read gear behind "flake" I new what happened. Glad you are ok, hope you learned a valuable lesson. 30 feet is an awfuly large fall for anyone, beginner or not. BE CAREFUL!
Unless the flake is huge, solid, and not expando, try to avoid them for gear placements. This is a general rule, not the law.
Robert
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1269topper
Jan 5, 2004, 5:34 PM
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Glad to hear your alright and not dead. The last two guys are right, gear behind a flake should be looked at carefully. Cause you can drop a block right on your belayer (hopefully he had a helmit on) and then your screwed.
Yo something to think about I tell this to everyone cause someone who really knew what they were doing told me. Practice down climbing often as a matter of fact down climb on a top rope to get the feel. THis is super great for trad leading cause if you can get what you want then get back to were your cool and have at it again.
Peace bro congrads on your wipper.
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fear
Jan 5, 2004, 6:28 PM
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Broken bones and stuff suck. You got lucky.
Starting a climb on lead over your head because the other routes are occupied will school you pretty quick if it doesn't kill you. Nothing wrong with testing your limits but not when you're just learning good placements. A 5.6/5.7 leader shouldn't be falling IMO unless something odd happens like rockfall, a broken hold, etc.
Don't ever just give up and fall off either, this aint sport climbing. Always leave enough reserve strength to downclimb. Even one body length down will reduce the total fall and impact by 12 feet.
-Fear
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overlord
Jan 5, 2004, 6:32 PM
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you lucky bastard
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muncher
Jan 5, 2004, 10:43 PM
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One more thing, I guess it can depend on the route but it is usually best not to push yourself out from the wall when you come off. Or at least if you do, do it only very slightly. Otherwise you can end up swinging in and hitting the rock pretty hard as you said you did.
Often it is better to either try and down climb in a sketchy situation like that (as mentioned previously) or if the pro is bomber then just suck it up and give it all youve got, you just never know what you can do when you really commit yourself.
But yeah, I agree with you that taking big whippers onto trad gear is a pretty good buzz. It helps so much with you climbing to actually know that your gear can hold a fall. It can be hard to get into that frame of mind when climbing trad, most of the time I climb it almost like I am soloing, like if I fall I will be toast but if the rock is solid and the placements good then why not push it some.
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cjstudent
Jan 6, 2004, 12:14 AM
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Yea I agree with everything that has been posted here...i definitly will be thinking 5 times before placing pro behind a flake unless its huge. Especially since the tri-cam that caught me was in the solid part of the rock so that was a good demonstration of rock features. I wasn't totally crazy...2 more pieces would have had to have busted for me to deck because i had the tri-cam which was bomber, and a two bomber nuts right below that which would have held.
Yes my belayer wears a helmet, for this reason of rock fall. (i do too always)
And yea i only pushed off the wall slightly because directly below me was a ledge that i would have bounced off of so i wanted to clear that, which i barely did and then came down into the wall...it all worked good. If the wall was totally vertical with no ledges i would have just fallen. I would have down climbed but I don't think i could have because i had just made a hard move to get to where i was, then when i got there I was trying to place a piece and peeled off the wall.
This wasn't my first 5.8 lead, i have a 5.7 and two other 5.8's under my belt. It was a big learning lesson, looking at a pic a guy took right as i fell i can see where i should have placed other gear but from my aspect it just looked like there was nothing...but i should have traversed left and stuck a cam into a perfect vertical crack.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/109055442/109249717HvkaOt
is the fall
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muncher
Jan 6, 2004, 12:30 AM
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It's all good then huh. Sounds like you had everything sorted out pretty well.
Keep cranking and if you continue climbing hard and falling like that especially on trad then you will be jumping up the grades in no time, if that is what you want that is.
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stuckintexas
Jan 6, 2004, 12:31 AM
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fun picture! thanks for posting it.
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coldclimb
Jan 6, 2004, 2:16 AM
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Sweet! I wondered if there was more of a story behind the pic when I approved it at this site a few minutes ago. ;)
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cjstudent
Jan 6, 2004, 4:26 AM
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yea I don't mean to sound like i have everything sorted out, i mean i did fall 30 feet and didn't mean to. I plan on knocking the leading down to 5.7 and lower for a few months and top-roping 5.10 and harder to improve skill on top-rope and practice and test placements while leading under my ability. I need some smaller cams too so that i can broaden my range of protectable cracks. I have from .5-2 in BD Camalots.
What exactly would you guys consider to be too small of a flake? I mean sometimes i place pro behind flakes that are 3+ inches wide, huge, and attached to the rock good...and does not move when pulled on. Is that ok, or by a flake are you guys more talking thiner rock? In the pic you can sorta see that the flake is actually pretty big, nothing small, because the pro that ripped is right beside my right foot.
And yea i think thats a pretty cool pic, a guy from another group took that and e-mailed it to me. I was wondering why nobody with me took a pic but then again...it was just my belayer and parents because my mom wanted to see me lead. Whoops!!! Haha Mom didn't talk to me for a few hours yesterday after seeing me fall. I didn't think you would approve that pic that quick coldclimb, thats why i went to webshots. appreciate it!
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=Show&PhotoID=23345
I guess the important thing is I'm not freaked out about it at all and still look forward to leading the Great Arch at Stone this weekend?
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deafears
Jan 6, 2004, 4:58 AM
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Very cool that someone took a shot of your first lead fall. Of course, photo documentation has its downside as well ...
You may want to improve on the details of your story. The climb was "a notorious sandbag," the gear was "all there, but pumpy to place" and the weather was "super humid," right? If you're not using these phrases yet, quickly have then added to the record.
I hope this will help you formulate an account of the fall that you will be happy with for years to come.
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socalclimber
Jan 6, 2004, 12:03 PM
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Well, I can't exactly put a label on "big solid flake". It takes experience and time to be able to read the rock. It depends on the type of rock, the quality, whether it has the potential to expand. It's just gonna take some time for you to learn how to read the rock.
If at all possible, try to determine how the flake is attached, how much of the flake is attached etc. etc. Rock quality will be a big determining factor. I don't care if the flake is 10" thick, if the rock is garbage, it's suspect.
Robert
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j_ung
Jan 6, 2004, 2:40 PM
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Wow, cjstudent, looking at that pic, knowing that the piece shown is about to blow and spew rock shards all across the Piedmont is kinda freaky. It's like rubbernecking at a traffic accident.
Musn't watch...
Must watch...
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tedc
Jan 6, 2004, 3:36 PM
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In reply to: ... I wasn't totally crazy...2 more pieces would have had to have busted for me to deck because i had the tri-cam which was bomber, and a two bomber nuts right below that which would have held. ...but i should have traversed left and stuck a cam into a perfect vertical crack. http://community.webshots.com/photo/109055442/109249717HvkaOt is the fall
Since you said before that your belayer could touch your feet after your fall, I'd say the tri-cam saved your ass and the rest of your bomber gear was useless to you at that point.
Looks like you might have placed your #2 in that pod below your left foot?? Or a big hex.
Your placement behind the flake looks pretty reasonable to me. I'd have used it if it was all I had. The location (close to where the flake is attached ) is good.
I'd go back once again to the soft catch idea. Practice with your belayer and see how much of a difference it makes in the force you feel and remember your gear feels twice that much force.
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cracklover
Jan 6, 2004, 4:09 PM
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You said you had two pieces behind that flake, a nut and a cam, right? I only see the one pink sling. How were the two pieces attached to your protection system? If they were in opposition (close to 180 degrees) or even just > 90 degrees from each other, they would start really prying that flake off hard. Remember how your anchor isn't supposed to have an angle bigger than ~70 degrees, because otherwise it starts multiplying forces on all the gear? Well the same physics happens for running protection. Behind a flake, this becomes more of an issue, especially if the rock quality in the area is only so-so.
Even if you didn't place them in opposition, might the cam have walked away from the nut? Or was it placed head-on into a constriction?
GO
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