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Hexes versus stoppers.
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climbingagain


Jan 14, 2004, 2:26 PM
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Hexes versus stoppers.
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Why to most climbers carry more stoppers on their racks than hexes? I've just recently gotten back into climbing after a twenty year layoff and am in the process of rebuilding a rack. I have about 12 hexes and about 8 stoppers and 3 friends all size #1. Any suggestions as to additional pro to buy?


dontfall


Jan 14, 2004, 2:32 PM
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Partner j_ung


Jan 14, 2004, 2:47 PM
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Re: Hexes versus stoppers. [In reply to]
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I think the fued is actually hex vs. SLCD, rather than hex vs. stopper. Hexes are more a passive cam than chock, so you're kinda comparing chickens and sheep. Sure, they're both barnyard animals...

Hexes have been steadily declining in use, because SLCDs are easier to learn to place well and are more forgiving in slightly off-sized cracks. Besides, a rack of cams is way sexier than a rack of cowbells.

What the hell's with me and farm animals?!

Anyway, if you think hexes are cool, check out tricams.


Partner cracklover


Jan 14, 2004, 3:10 PM
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Re: Hexes versus stoppers. [In reply to]
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Why to most climbers carry more stoppers on their racks than hexes?

People carry a lot of stoppers because they are small, light, cheap, take up a very small amount of space on your rack, have a ton of placements on the rock, and have a small size range per piece. Hexes are larger, heavier, more expensive, and you won't find as many cracks that take them. But the two are not mutually exlusive by any means. In fact, there's little overlap in their range. But where their ranges do overlap, the nuts win nine times out of ten for placeability (IME).

GO


dirtineye


Jan 14, 2004, 5:49 PM
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Get some tri-cams! And some zero friends.

I use hexes to extend the range of my nuts, so I don't have any hexes in hte size ranges of nuts. I am thinking of possibly adding a few small hexes because there are a few times when they woudl be better than a nut. I'm using the wild country reck-centrics, slung with dyneema, and they are very light.

A hex will fit in places that a cam will not do very well, so I'm all for em.


scubasnyder


Jan 14, 2004, 5:53 PM
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I like both, i use more stoppers, it may be the area i climb though.


cjstudent


Jan 14, 2004, 5:59 PM
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Yea I was thinking of buying some small hex's to supplement my BD stoppers. Because it seems to me there are times where a small hex could double as a stopper yet a stopper couldn't really double as a small hex.


timpanogos


Jan 14, 2004, 8:04 PM
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buy a set of cams - you'll start leaving your cow bells at home


texplorer


Jan 14, 2004, 10:28 PM
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All good comments here.

I have found that I almost never use hexes. There are some kinds of rock that they work really well in but for the most part cams are more versatile, faster, and the new standard. They are heavier and more expensive however.

I would suggest you buy a few more cams for your rack. A good start would be a .75, 1, 2, and 3 size camalots. They are slightly heavier than other cams but have a greater camming range and great mechanical action that resists sticking.


slcliffdiver


Jan 16, 2004, 2:44 AM
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Re: Hexes versus stoppers. [In reply to]
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Yea I was thinking of buying some small hex's to supplement my BD stoppers. Because it seems to me there are times where a small hex could double as a stopper yet a stopper couldn't really double as a small hex.

Small hexes are often a pain to place properly in vertical cracks. I'd go with a set of scooped stoppers then another set of BD shape or Wild Country shape (they are different sideways) stopper up to tricam size and small tricams before I'd add small hexes to my rack. My rack to start with was a full set of hexes, full set of BD stoppers and a few friends. 90% of the time I placed the small hexes I wished I had a another stopper (I did relatively quickly). There are rare places the small hexes come in handy but most of the time I won't miss them.


catbiter


Jan 16, 2004, 3:30 AM
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I am still fairly new to trad, but I have a full set of Wild Country stoppers and a full set of Metolius Powercams. however my partner has a huge selection of BD hexes and another set of the Powercams. When we toss it all together I always seem to go for a cam or a stopper over a hex. I have a harder time sizing up what hex to use. I also have one tricam (the black one) and it seems like I use it all the time for horizontal cracks. I think it's just what you prefer.


climber_osu


Jan 16, 2004, 4:10 AM
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I have a set of hexes and don't seem to place them often. A cam is just much easier. The only hexes that I actually carry are the 3 largest and I use the largest as a hammer. I just recently got some smaller tricams and I was so pleased with them that I will be getting many more.


mrme


Jan 16, 2004, 4:35 AM
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I think the fued is actually hex vs. SLCD, rather than hex vs. stopper. Hexes are more a passive cam than chock, so you're kinda comparing chickens and sheep. Sure, they're both barnyard animals...

Hexes have been steadily declining in use, because SLCDs are easier to learn to place well and are more forgiving in slightly off-sized cracks. Besides, a rack of cams is way sexier than a rack of cowbells.

What the hell's with me and farm animals?!

Anyway, if you think hexes are cool, check out tricams.

when did hexes get harder to place? tcu are some of the hardest peices of gear to place you have to make sure those bugers don't shift on you. hexes are as straight forward as nuts for the most part; unless you mean there easer to plug and go then i will give you that. 4 cams are really nice plug and go peice for the most part as long as you place them right , but that goes for any peice of gear.


mrme


Jan 16, 2004, 4:48 AM
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i would recomend talking to the people that climb in your area because every area is difrent on what type of gear works the best there... though the red #1 black camolet, pink tri-cam(smallest),yellow allien(the smallest yellow),and three metolios tcu's(grey,purple,blue)....seems to be peices liked by alot of people at a lot of diffrent areas. i think they have favorite peice threads somewhere on this site check that out too...maybee it will give you an idea of some good peices to add too your rack or switch some of the ones your not happy with. check out a set of the new metolious curves. oh yea the small brass nuts hb makes the offsets are usually raved about too.




nuts are a wonderfull tool.


andypro


Jan 16, 2004, 7:03 AM
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The way it seems to me is that people just dont use hexes anymore because they dont know how. Anyone who says a cam is so much easier and faster to place than a hex in GENREAL circumstances hasn't placed many hexes, or just doesn't know how to use them.

Every piece of gear has it's reason and it's place. I've got lotsa hexes. I use them alot too. I'm not going to place a marginal cam jsut becuase it's easier or faster than placing a bomber hex. To me it's not that much faster or easier.

Same thing with tricams. Youll see a lot of people on this site say that any tricam above red is useless, and tha'ts only the ones you can even get to admit using tircams at all. They'll say how hard they are to place, and it's pointless when you can just pop in a cam. Once again..My guess...these people havn't placed many tircams, or jsut plain dont know how.

I could probably go on with just about every non-SLCD based piece of gear in this manner but I wont. Youll find a lot of "spoiled" people giving advice on the internet. Take it all with a grain of salt. Hell...even all of this is MY opinion, and is open to ignoring or flaming from anyone, and probably will be becuase of the hatred the internet has for us hex and tricam lovers.

And dont even get me started on the whole camalot thing. It's a can of worms I'd be willing to open, but man...you make nothing but enemies and flame fests around here when you say you dont like camalots :wink:


Now...after sifting through all my bullsheet....

I would recommend another set of stoppers...say..ABC heuvos..only 50 bucks for the set. Then get cams in the just under an inch on up range. I prefer wild country cams to anyhting else. Tri-cams are a nice supplement as well, but take practice to place well...but end up being often invaluable.

I personally hate tiny cams. Iv'e got some, and hardly use them. They're very difficult to place properly, and if not placed properly are just about useless. I do like slide nut type "cams" though such as lowe balls, or camp ballnutz and trango ballnuts (both made in the same factory). They're much stronger materially than a small cam, and easier to place well to boot.

These are all jsut my opinions, and I await the flame bath that will probably ensue.


mreardon


Jan 16, 2004, 8:13 AM
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Everybody is different. I learned trad with stoppers and hexes, then slowly changed over to Aliens and Camelots. Now when I'm off on lead, I carry a solid mixture of both, but 90% of the time will use the cams and aliens with the occasional stopper thrown in for good measure. As for those hexes, they were passed along to another climber just starting out.


slcliffdiver


Jan 17, 2004, 5:34 AM
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when did hexes get harder to place? tcu are some of the hardest peices of gear to place you have to make sure those bugers don't shift on you. hexes are as straight forward as nuts for the most part; unless you mean there easer to plug and go then i will give you that. 4 cams are really nice plug and go peice for the most part as long as you place them right , but that goes for any peice of gear.

Of course it depends on the placement but small wired hexes can be a bit of a pain in a fair amount of placements in vertical cracks because the wire is ofset to help them cam but that can make them sticky trying to get them into a good position because the side of the crack is forcing the wire to cam them before you want (there are a couple of tricks that help in some situations but they require an even better eye and an extra step or two). If they aren't wired they're hard to get into position because it's hard to fit your finger and thumb so you can manipulate them easily where you want them to go. Though the advent of stiff high strength cord has helped a bit for a reasonable amount of placements. I forgot I probably did most of my cursing of them in the 80's (pre high strength cord) but even when small hexes have a stiff cord wired stoppers are more often easier to place well. By the time they're the size you can get your finger and thumb into the crack easily they're generally relatively easy to place wired or not but you're out of stopper territory then.

Small cams can be a pain in well featured rock and beautiful in cracks with relatively unfeatured sides. There are cracks that are even enough that as long as you pick the right size you don't have to worry about much else (I'm not advocating plugging them in and not checking) and the there are pocked cracks from hell where you have to be very precise about where each lobe is sitting. I like tricams when things get bumpy find a spot for the nose and 9 places out of ten with proper handling the rails take care of themselves. As long as you are profiecient with the pro the "best" rack is a "local" rack.


maohaihuang


Jan 19, 2004, 7:39 AM
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i agree with slcliffdiver that in odd shaped crack/pocket/holes that are often found on limestone, hex (slung) and tricams are often easier to place than cams and nuts.


mrme


Jan 20, 2004, 3:49 AM
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when did hexes get harder to place? tcu are some of the hardest peices of gear to place you have to make sure those bugers don't shift on you. hexes are as straight forward as nuts for the most part; unless you mean there easer to plug and go then i will give you that. 4 cams are really nice plug and go peice for the most part as long as you place them right , but that goes for any peice of gear.

Of course it depends on the placement but small wired hexes can be a bit of a pain in a fair amount of placements in vertical cracks because the wire is ofset to help them cam but that can make them sticky trying to get them into a good position because the side of the crack is forcing the wire to cam them before you want (there are a couple of tricks that help in some situations but they require an even better eye and an extra step or two). If they aren't wired they're hard to get into position because it's hard to fit your finger and thumb so you can manipulate them easily where you want them to go. Though the advent of stiff high strength cord has helped a bit for a reasonable amount of placements. I forgot I probably did most of my cursing of them in the 80's (pre high strength cord) but even when small hexes have a stiff cord wired stoppers are more often easier to place well. By the time they're the size you can get your finger and thumb into the crack easily they're generally relatively easy to place wired or not but you're out of stopper territory then.

Small cams can be a pain in well featured rock and beautiful in cracks with relatively unfeatured sides. There are cracks that are even enough that as long as you pick the right size you don't have to worry about much else (I'm not advocating plugging them in and not checking) and the there are pocked cracks from hell where you have to be very precise about where each lobe is sitting. I like tricams when things get bumpy find a spot for the nose and 9 places out of ten with proper handling the rails take care of themselves. As long as you are profiecient with the pro the "best" rack is a "local" rack.

even though you wrote a betifull peice i still have to say cams are harder for the novice climber to place i have seen enough of my friends make the mistake of pluging and going just to have the cams come out before i even get there just because when they set it it was good.... there passive gear nuts hexes tricams seem always bomber. and yes i have climbed on a mixed form of pro taking rock and i know sometimes cams are better in some placements, but as for someone not familure at all with gear they always seem to know a nut is in a good placement compared to cams, and to get some one to relize a cam needs a directional sometimes is almost impossible for them (compared to directional nuts)to comperhend unless they have followed you up something were you have done it before not many of these placements out there i am sure but i have come across one.


slcliffdiver


Jan 20, 2004, 5:37 AM
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even though you wrote a betifull peice i still have to say cams are harder for the novice climber to place i have seen enough of my friends make the mistake of pluging and going just to have the cams come out before i even get there just because when they set it it was good.... there passive gear nuts hexes tricams seem always bomber. and yes i have climbed on a mixed form of pro taking rock and i know sometimes cams are better in some placements, but as for someone not familure at all with gear they always seem to know a nut is in a good placement compared to cams, and to get some one to relize a cam needs a directional sometimes is almost impossible for them (compared to directional nuts)to comperhend unless they have followed you up something were you have done it before not many of these placements out there i am sure but i have come across one.

Probably my bad for the misunderstanding. Had a weird few weeks, basically I was trying to disuade people from buying small hex instead of an extra set of stoppers and explian why people had fewer hexes than stoppers (not many carry the small ones). I thought you were arguing that small hexes were easy to place using my definition (get in position). If you replace the word place in what you just wrote with evaluate or place properly I agree with pretty much everything you just said. Think we just were using different meaning of the same word. Small hexes aren't that hard to evaluate they can just be a pain getting them where you want in a position you want. I use the phrase harder to place strickly to talk about the physical act of getting the piece where it needs to go. I use harder to evaluate, find etc. placements for everything else. Do we agree or am I still missing something.


mrme


Jan 20, 2004, 5:46 AM
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even though you wrote a betifull peice i still have to say cams are harder for the novice climber to place i have seen enough of my friends make the mistake of pluging and going just to have the cams come out before i even get there just because when they set it it was good.... there passive gear nuts hexes tricams seem always bomber. and yes i have climbed on a mixed form of pro taking rock and i know sometimes cams are better in some placements, but as for someone not familure at all with gear they always seem to know a nut is in a good placement compared to cams, and to get some one to relize a cam needs a directional sometimes is almost impossible for them (compared to directional nuts)to comperhend unless they have followed you up something were you have done it before not many of these placements out there i am sure but i have come across one.

Probably my bad for the misunderstanding. Had a weird few weeks, basically I was trying to disuade people from buying small hex instead of an extra set of stoppers and explian why people had fewer hexes than stoppers (not many carry the small ones). I thought you were arguing that small hexes were easy to place using my definition (get in position). If you replace the word place in what you just wrote with evaluate or place properly I agree with pretty much everything you just said. Think we just were using different meaning of the same word. Small hexes aren't that hard to evaluate they can just be a pain getting them where you want in a position you want. I use the phrase harder to place strickly to talk about the physical act of getting the piece where it needs to go. I use harder to evaluate, find etc. placements for everything else. Do we agree or am I still missing something.

yea no biggie i figured it was just miss comunication thats why i posted back to try to explain what i said the first time better i don't know how much experince the original poster has had and wanted to make him aware of placements with cams can be tricky. and i like how you use evaluate instead of place i think i might start using that when i remember. :lol: :D


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